2010/4/10 Hellekin O. Wolf <[email protected]>

> On Wed, Apr 07, 2010 at 10:19:57AM +0200, Matija Šuklje wrote:
> >
> > I'm all for free speech, but the thing is that legally as well as IRL you
> > get a clash of privacy vs. free speech. To put it in legalspeek: "One's
> > right extends only as far as another's begins."
> >
> *** Putting privacy and free speech in the same pot sounds to me like
> a counter-revolutionary attack on both privacy and free speech.  It
> seems to say: you cannot have privacy if you have free speech, and you
> cannot have free speech if you have privacy.  I wonder when this
> dichotomy appeared, but I relate it to the general trends in warfare
> speech that says "Either you're with us, or against us" and the
> marketing-fascist trend of pushing transparency at all price, "because
> you don't have anything to hide."
>
> Free speech in these terms, has become an advertisement for "I can say
> anything I want, especially gossip that lifts the dirty veil of
> secrecy you maintain about your private life".  The panopticon of
> paparazzi.
>
> Privacy is these terms, has become the mark of someone ("un-american")
> who doesn't trust the system, and hides from it things that  are
> consequently suspicious.
>
> Proponents of PRIVACY VS. FREE SPEECH mix all concepts and flatten
> them so as to obtain a thin film of nonsense that can cover and choke
> anything below it.
>

This is a very good point.  I think eben moglen covers a lot of this in his,
at time fiery, debate with Tim O'Reilly

http://radar.oreilly.com/2007/08/my-tonguelashing-from-eben-mog.html

Moglen suggests that, at times there is are conflict of rights, which leads
to a higher order thinking and level of discussion.


>
> When TRANSPARENCY is used to champion democratic ideas, we're not
> talking about TOTAL TRANSPARENCY (that would be fascism), but about
> PUBLIC TRANSPARENCY: democratic institutions and representatives
> activity *should* be transparent, as in: publicly accountable.  That
> works in Sweden, where public finances are indeed public, and people
> can check where their tax money go.  That is entirely different from
> Big-Brother-ing the neighboorhood with a dense network of spy cameras.
>
> One should remember that the original version of the Panopticon was a
> conceptual prison, where prisoners would believe they are under
> constant surveillance, hence self-discipline out of fear of
> punishment.  I don't know how you feel about it, but since the 1970s
> and Foucault, this not only sounds childish and retrograde, but a very
> dangerous and fascist way of looking at society.
>
> When designing social software, and thinking about these issues, one
> has to be careful with terms and concepts.
>
> ==
> hk
>
>
>

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