Re [SOCIAL CREDIT] John Gelles' war bonds [Dup]

[John Gelles]

The following text by Victor Bridger is, in my opinion, an elegant and correct explanation of what I have been trying to say.  I have highlighted it in red.  Thank you Victor.   John ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bridger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 9:02 PM Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] John Gelles' war bonds In war time governments find the money to conduct the war (build planes, ships, bombs etc) which they can never find in peace time. The problem is that they borrow the money which is paid into the war economy. To overcome inflation they sell bonds (ostensibly telling the people the money is needed to support the war effort and help our brave fighting forces) which is in reality a way of mopping up surplus money to reduce demand for consumption goods. at the same time they introduce ration coupons for food ,clothing, petrol and other items.   It is a fact that whilst so many are taken out of the workforce for the military and another lot are removed from producing consumer goods and are occupied in capital production( planes, ships, bombs - goods that do not come on to the consumer market) no one starves.    If the same principle could be applied in peace time, to build hospitals, schools, provide education, build homes etc. we would be better off. If the money came from a source other than borrowing (debt) we would be even better off. If the money (finance credit) was provided against the real credit of the nation (the ability to provide goods and services as, where and when wanted, we could be on the way to realising the use of our social Credit.   As for Keynes, he amongst other economists would not recognise Douglas' findings that there was a deficiency in purchasing power yet perverted the Social Credit idea that it did exist, by his admission that it did, by introducing his "pump priming" deficit budgeting. The difference, on this question alone, between Keynes and Douglas is that Keynes proposals were based on government borrowing and increasing debt, which ultimately increased prices and inflation, and the necessity to increase taxes.    Douglas' proposals were based on the creation of new money to be applied to increase purchasing power, prevent inflation, and without an increase in government debt, and no need to increase taxes. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Gelles To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Sunday, February 16, 2003 6:30 PM Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] John Gelles' war bonds Victor Bridger is correct that wages and other income from war production is helpful in ensuring adequate purchasing power for the food and civilian necessities produced at the same time. The problems that arise are that there is often not enough to eat and inflation hits the warring nation as it creates too much mone- tized demand.   What we learn from war production is that capacity can be greatly increased if management is excellent and war does not destroy your country.  Peacetime production could imitate wartime financing and give us the good part of higher supply and capacity with the actual products produced being the things that people need.   As to Alex Rupp's question on interest -- special bonds (not war bonds which were sold to the public) is what I suggested -- and they pay no interest to owners while held by the central bank. So they are cost free until later sold to a member of the public as a means of absorbing excess money in public hands.   These sales occur much later when the public has money enough to buy the bonds. There is no need to ever sell them to the public if the voters will accept principles of debt-free money that I favor. Failure to rely on debt-free money offers investors a bond whose issuer is the sovereign -- often a good thing for pension funds of a traditional kind.   As to my thoughts on Keynes -- he is only one thinker among many who saw the need to correct our system to prevent unemployment, poverty and depression.  My favorite dead economist is one who wrote after Keynes and offered the insight that taxes were solely to prevent inflation -- they did not have to suck up gold coin as they once had to do much earlier.   John Gelles ----- Original Message ----- From: Victor Bridger To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 10:46 PM Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] John Gelles' war bonds A little thought will reveal that the greatest EXPORT trade that is ever entered into is WAR. Goods are produced that do not enter the domestic market but which have generated incomes. They are surplus production which do not even have to be paid for, they are given away (to the enemy). ----- Original Message ----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Social Credit Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 4:10 PM Subject: Re: [SOCIAL CREDIT] John Gelles' war bonds Mr. Gelles,   Please answer me this:  If the government issues a war bond to the public and spends the money generated to construct/purchase an incredibly expensive arsenal of cluster bombs which can only be used once, where precisely does the money come from to pay back the interest on the bond?  It certainly should not come from the public purse (unless taxing someone in order to pay them back their interest is your idea of sound investment). ...<snip> ... see original messages ... ==^==^============================================================= This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. 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