"Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument About it and about: but evermore Came out by the same door as in I went.
"But leave the Wise to wangle, and with me The quarrel of the Universe let be: And, in some corner of the Hubbub coucht, Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee." I begin to sympathize with old Omar Khayyam. I shall leave the experts to wrangle over the bookkeeping issues and just raise some issues that occupy my mind. I came in as a layperson, and I remain a layperson with a lot of questions unanswered, the main one being "Will it, can it, work?" Here are a few layman's points:- 1. Can it be that 'one size fits all?' The situation in South Africa (let alone Zimbabwe) seems vastly different than America, Canada, England, Australia. Can Social Credit be set out in a 'system' that satisfies all? *** (CH) The answer is Yes, without a doubt. 2. Steve pointed out that the whole world lies at the mercy of the multi-national corporations. Can a system that suits them suit a rural clan in a tribal area in KwaZulu-Natal where the adult literacy rate is probably less than ten percent (latest statistic is that 80% of all South African adults are functionally illiterate), and women-folk look after to the 'agriculture' while their menfolk are away working in towns and cities? Where a whole family lives off an old-age pensioner's social pension equal to about R20 per day (coffee at the Seattle Coffee Shop in the city costs R7 -- R10); where grandmothers are left raising infants whose mothers have died of AIDS, and who struggle to access the meagre grants available to them (we do not blame the government, they are doing their best in the face of small budgets and lack of infrastructure. There are no banks anywhere near accessible to the people who have to walk long distances to get to a remote trading store.) *** (CH) Social Credit would defiantly help but something must be done in the mean time and it can. The assistance for what to do is available from other parts of the world. The Canadian Co-operative Association will help for certain, but they have to be invited, and they will often work with the Canadian Economic Development Agency for funds. I am quite sure as well that the International Co-operative Association in Switzerland will help out. They would also be able to help out with co-operative schools if the government will not and Credit Unions can be established. They will also work with other agencies to do student exchanges as well. In the depths of the depression in Canada, the banks had closed 138 banks across Alberta alone which put Alberta in the same situation as you are talking in Africa. A person could not just jump in the car and pop down the road to another bank because there was no money in circulation, cars did not even have engines. Any one who had a car had to have a team of horses hooked to the fort to pull it. That is when Aberhart got in trouble form the federal government; well one of the times, for condemning the banks. He wanted to force them out of the province completely if there were not prepared to provide services to the people. That is when in 1938 they passed the legislation to introduce Credit Unions into Alberta and September of that year they started the Alberta Treasury Branches, a division of the Provincial Treasury, to open up in every location where a bank had been. The ATB was started with $250,000 and did not need further money until the Conservative Government lost so much in the 1980s from their scandalous losses. The ATB is still in existence. They started by making banking facilities available and then long term, low interest loans to all individuals, farms, small business and especially to these in desperate need. The existence of the ATB also caused the banks to reopen and the interest rate policy of the ATB caused the banks to lower their rates. As for literacy, North America may not be quite as bad but it still has a fu nctional illiteracy rate of more than 35% and contrary to popular belief the poverty rate is extremely high for a part of the world that is supposed to be wealthy. 3. Where does the Social Credit come from in a country like Zimbabwe where there is a very definite negative growth in the National Asset? We can blame the government, but the people are poor and still need to eat, they still need access to money to buy grain products which are priced according to International Dollar prices. Can there be an one International Social Credit in our global village? *** (CH) Again, there is much that can be done even in the present system. The people of Zimbabwe do not have to wait for Social Credit to be put in to get something started. Social Credit will make it much easier but they can start immediately to improve their situation with the establishment of Co-operatives and Credit Unions. As for Social Credit, Zimbabwe already has the power and capabilities to implement it because real Social Credit is based on the people, and not on the natural recourses nor the Gross Production. The people are the only assets that give Social Credit value. And if the people have a need the money can be created. 4. It is fact that our African economies are at the mercy of the IMF and World Bank (which are financed and therefore 'owned' by foreign governments, funded by multi-national corporations.) All African countries (except South Africa and Libya) seem to be up to their ears in debt which they have little hope of repaying. They are held to ransome, and pay up with unfavorable (to them) trade agreements and exploitation of natural resources. **** (CH) Your are right about the IMF but this too can be countered with both Co-ops and Credit Unions, co-operation of the people and of course Social Credit, if you could get it started. 5. African States may seem to be unitary States, but they are far from it. In the Democratic Republic of Congo there are over 200 ethnic groups, and in Nigeria about 180, each with their own aspirations. I haven't been there, but I would think there is even less access to banks and services than in South Africa. **** (CH) Even where there is such diversity of ethnic groups there is the opportunity to make both Social Credit and/or Co-operation work. As well, through the establishment and use Co-operatives the people will be able to work together without conflicting with their diverse groups. In Alberta there were people coming from all parts of the world and who had been at war with each other and the prejudice and animosity was still very strong. The early years of co-operation is what made Alberta what it is today. 6. Someone has raised the question of the association with 'Christian'. I think the mention of 'Christian' came about because I said I had come to the list starting from the Christian perspective -- not the 'evangelizing perspective', but from the idea that American Democracy, which is now the model for the world, comes about because of a wrong practice in Christianity suggesting that democracy is a party-based thing (the Christian Church was never meant to be a mass of thirty-thousand denominations). I say there is nothing democratic in the system because the individual has no voice in the presence of powerful interests that back parties and put their own people in office. The world's banking systems evolved in that milieu to serve the interests of the large and powerful traders. *** (CH) What you are saying quite true. That is the very reason why it is so important to understand that, first and foremost, no dictator will be benevolent and nor will what he does be good for all the people, probably not even most, no matter how good he is. Second, democracy is not only a constantly evolving thing it requires eternal vigilance. Third, no matter what culture, religion, or philosophy that a country is established on, through democracy, real open and honest democracy, it will never be able to remain centred in that one religion or whatever. That is all the more reason for having the money system focused or centred on the people and not on such things as gold, resources, or the wealthy people. Once the money system is centred on, or based on the people, all other policy will fluctuate based on the politics of the time, like it or not but the people will be in control. Right now, democratic nations fluctuate on policy with the change of government but the money system and the people who control it, hold control of the people and the public policy. I could go on, but many on this list are probably more up on the African problems than I am, so I end by asking the same questions as at the beginning: "Will it, can it, work?" "Can one size really fit all" -- or does there have to be a separate solution for us in Africa? In a separate e-mail, I would like to set out what would be my wish-list for our own country. Jessop. ------------------------- Good questions but do we want to wait for Social Credit or do we want to get started immediately. Chick ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jessop Sutton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Saturday, February 15, 2003 10:25 AM Subject: [SOCIAL CREDIT] Some questioning "Myself when young did eagerly frequent Doctor and Saint, and heard great argument About it and about: but evermore Came out by the same door as in I went. "But leave the Wise to wangle, and with me The quarrel of the Universe let be: And, in some corner of the Hubbub coucht, Make Game of that which makes as much of Thee." I begin to sympathize with old Omar Khayyam. I shall leave the experts to wrangle over the bookkeeping issues and just raise some issues that occupy my mind. I came in as a layperson, and I remain a layperson with a lot of questions unanswered, the main one being "Will it, can it, work?" Here are a few layman's points:- 1. Can it be that 'one size fits all?' The situation in South Africa (let alone Zimbabwe) seems vastly different than America, Canada, England, Australia. Can Social Credit be set out in a 'system' that satisfies all? 2. Steve pointed out that the whole world lies at the mercy of the multi-national corporations. Can a system that suits them suit a rural clan in a tribal area in KwaZulu-Natal where the adult literacy rate is probably less than ten percent (latest statistic is that 80% of all South African adults are functionally illiterate), and women-folk look after to the 'agriculture' while their menfolk are away working in towns and cities? Where a whole family lives off an old-age pensioner's social pension equal to about R20 per day (coffee at the Seattle Coffee Shop in the city costs R7 -- R10); where grandmothers are left raising infants whose mothers have died of AIDS, and who struggle to access the meager grants available to them (we do not blame the government, they are doing their best in the face of small budgets and lack of infrastructure. There are no banks anywhere near accessible to the people who have to walk long distances to get to a remote trading store.) 3. Where does the Social Credit come from in a country like Zimbabwe where there is a very definite negative growth in the National Asset? We can blame the government, but the people are poor and still need to eat, they still need access to money to buy grain products which are priced according to International Dollar prices. Can there be an one International Social Credit in our global village? 4. It is fact that our African economies are at the mercy of the IMF and World Bank (which are financed and therefore 'owned' by foreign governments, funded by multi-national corporations.) All African countries (except South Africa and Libya) seem to be up to their ears in debt which they have little hope of repaying. They are held to ransome, and pay up with unfavorable (to them) trade agreements and exploitation of natural resources. 5. African States may seem to be unitary States, but they are far from it. In the Democratic Republic of Congo there are over 200 ethnic groups, and in Nigeria about 180, each with their own aspirations. I haven't been there, but I would think there is even less access to banks and services than in South Africa. 6. Someone has raised the question of the association with 'Christian'. I think the mention of 'Christian' came about because I said I had come to the list starting from the Christian perspective -- not the 'evangelizing perspective', but from the idea that American Democracy, which is now the model for the world, comes about because of a wrong practice in Christianity suggesting that democracy is a party-based thing (the Christian Church was never meant to be a mass of thirty-thousand denominations). I say there is nothing democratic in the system because the individual has no voice in the presence of powerful interests that back parties and put their own people in office. The world's banking systems evolved in that milieu to serve the interests of the large and powerful traders. I could go on, but many on this list are probably more up on the African problems than I am, so I end by asking the same questions as at the beginning: "Will it, can it, work?" "Can one size really fit all" -- or does there have to be a separate solution for us in Africa? In a separate e-mail, I would like to set out what would be my wish-list for our own country. Jessop. ------------------------- ==^================================================================ This email was sent to: archive@mail-archive.com EASY UNSUBSCRIBE click here: http://topica.com/u/?a84IaC.bcVIgP.YXJjaGl2 Or send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] TOPICA - Start your own email discussion group. FREE! http://www.topica.com/partner/tag02/create/index2.html ==^================================================================
