On Wed, 30 Mar 2011, Andreas Maria Jacobs wrote:
as knowledge workers
and dissemblers and creators of meaning
it is generally worth expanding definitions
instead of collapsing them
claiming something is something else can be risky
claiming many things are something else is very risky
these are classic methods of dis-informers and propagandists
can i propose that the quest for knowledge and enlightenment
be considered as the unknotting a of blade of grass, rooted in the ground
and reaching for the light
on the axis of concrete-abstract things may be more true or untrue
depending on their level integration within the smooth continuum
most facebook users no longer have any unhindered link back to the soil
and if attempt this journey end up vomiting on the roller-coaster of
perception
Everything is Real
A Facebook Conversation between Curt Cloninger, Everly Brown, Kenneth Bailey,
Marija Vauda and Agam Andreas
Februari 21 to Februari 23 2011
CURT CLONINGER
Everything is real except for the unreal (and even "the unreal" as an
ontological category is real). So... Hyper-real is real. Augmented reality is
real. The virtual is real. The actual is real. Online life is real. Offline
life is real. Digital & analog -- both real. Spectacle & simulacrum -- both
real. Imaginary & artificial -- real, real, real.
February 21 at 7:14pm · LikeUnlike
·
3 people like this.
EVERLY BROWN
What about the unkown unkowns?
February 21 at 7:16pm · LikeUnlike
KENNETH BAILEY
So... would you say you consider yourself a realist? :)
February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike
CURT CLONINGER
"There are known knowns; there are things we know we know. We also know there
are known unknowns; that is to say we know there are some things we do not
know. But there are also unknown unknowns the ones we don't know we don't
know." - D...onald Rumsfeld
The glib response would be to say, "I don't know." Instead, I will say that
the unknown unknowns are also real. Because even in Rumsfeld's statement,
there is a presumption -- he presumes to know that the unknown unknowns are
(at least) things. We don't know that we don't know them, but we still
presume that "they" "are" "ones."See More
February 21 at 7:24pm · LikeUnlike
· 1 personLoading...
CURT CLONINGER
Kenny, I myself am not a realist, but I am real, and realism is real.
February 21 at 7:25pm · LikeUnlike
· 1 personLoading...
MARIJA VAUDA
''...Something un-named doesn't exist.But everything is
named./V.Nabokov/''...SAME WAY WE COULD THOUGHT ABOUT
REAL/ITY/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 21 at 8:38pm · LikeUnlike
· 1 personLoading...
AGAM ANDREAS
Everything inside men is unreal, and a fiction of human beings, reality only
exists outside human experience
Nature is real
body is real
corpse is real
...
mind is unreal,
art is unreal,
death is real
life is real
politics is unreal,
language is unreal
relation is unreal
Sound is real
Logic is unreal
Air is real
Love is unreal
Hate is unreal
Tree is real
Imaging a tree is unreal
Dreaming is unreal
Stone is real
Nature is real
Culture is unreal
FB is unreal
Internet is unreal
Fight the unreality!
Make things!, not thoughts!
URD
Unreality Resistance Department
"Natura Naturans", Baruch d'Espinoza
See More
February 21 at 8:55pm · LikeUnlike
MARIJA VAUDA
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Semiotics
SEMIOTICS CHAIN COULDN'T BE BROKEN WITHOUT CONSEQUENCE...
1./IMAGINING TREE IS UNREAL TREE IS ALSO UNREAL
2./TREE IS REAL AND IMAGINING TREE REAL
3./KIGJCZ IS REAL AND IMAGINING KIGJCZ IS REAL
......MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...See More
February 21 at 10:10pm · LikeUnlike
AGAM ANDREAS
Reality is a relation
No relation no reality
No words no nonsense
...
SRD
Semiotic Resistance DepartmentSee More
February 21 at 10:55pm · LikeUnlike
MARIJA VAUDA
...THAT'S CORRECT...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 21 at 11:06pm · LikeUnlike
CURT CLONINGER
Andreas, I think Bergson would say that matter and memory are both real.
Memory may be something like "the virtual," but both the virtual and the
actual are real to Bergson. The virtual is simply a kind of contingent real
that hasn't been a...ctualized yet historically/materially. Memory modulates
matter and vice versa; both within the real.
Latour would argue that the nature/culture divide is a residual cultural
construct from Romanticism.
More radically, Deleuze/Guattari would argue that on the big-picture plane of
consistency/immanence (what I understand as something like Bergson's "real"
or Heidegger's "being-in-the-world"), things modulate thoughts modulate
things modulate language modulate geology modulate politics modulate bodies
modulate faces modulate biology modulate cooking/eating modulate dwelling,
etc. All within the real, just captured into different (albeit intricately
interconnected) strata. (Yet they might come close to agreeing that logic is
unreal.)See More
February 21 at 11:16pm · LikeUnlike
AGAM ANDREAS
I agree on stating that the culture/nature divide is an artificial byproduct
of romanticism went wrong
Regarding reality as a relation - to be actively keep alive, a kind of
relational heartbeat - reality is depended both on nature and cult...ure -
the dynamical consumption of its conflicting and irrational ways of
expressing its very existence is both alienating and connecting
The actual act of thinking itself is insufficient to comprehend its own
nature, expressed as it is by its dynamic relation with its cultural
dominating ecosystems in which it is forming
Wiener and Maturana/Varela are trying to understand life as a kind of
autopoesis on which memory serves an Darwinistic role in using matter to
maintain the best possible outcome of its need - will? - to maintain its
living condition
Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'
"Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between is the
realm of the unreal called life"
ARD
Autopoetical Resistance Department
February 21 at 11:50pm · LikeUnlike
CURT CLONINGER
> "Reality is a continuously 'becoming' and never will 'be'."
I agree here. This is D+G's critique of most philosophy -- If we only ever
analyze what "is" or "has been," then how will we ever understand the
mechanisms that bring things in...to being?
> "Real is what was before birth and remains after death, in between is
> the realm of the unreal called life."
Here I would disagree, but then I don't think life (or being, or time) ends
at death (which puts me a bit at odds with the "existential" Heidegger -- I
don't see death as the horizon of being, although it is indubitably the
horizon of being-in-the-world).See More
February 22 at 12:19am · LikeUnlike
MARIJA VAUDA
...Maurice Merleau-Ponty have well known phenomenologycal definition of time
as something:''Which is not anymore and it's not yet.''...Also need to see
phenomenon of *real* or *unreal* could be seen in system of Leibniz monads
/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gottfried_Leibniz / which is re-actual/sated/
in recent micro physic
research/mater-anti-mater/...MANIK...FEBRUARY...2011...
February 22 at 1:00pm · LikeUnlike
AGAM ANDREAS
Some reading food, for adventurous minds only!:
http://www.heksis.com/index.html
February 23 at 2:09pm · LikeUnlike
AGAM ANDREAS
special issue about body and art in Polish and English, very interesting
periodical, concerned with rather 'difficult' issues.
Well worth reading!
February 23 at 2:10pm · LikeUnlike
· 1 person
Andreas Maria Jacobs
w: http: //www.nictoglobe.com
w: http: //burgerwaanzin.nl
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