Many years ago (when I made an honest living as a helper) I worked in a
plant that made artificial sweetener for sodas. I vowed never to let my
children drink a soda that required all that chemical protective equipment
just for me to hang pipe.

R/

Matt 

Matthew J. Willis
Living Water Fire Protection, LLC.
1160 McKenzie Rd.
PO Box 877
Cantonment, FL. 32533
850-937-1850 Voice
850-937-1852 Facsimile
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
 

----- >-----Original Message-----
----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
----- >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:38 PM
----- >To: [email protected]
----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants?
----- >
----- >Toothpaste,  uh, you'd die if you knew some of the stuff 
----- >that goes into
----- >making some of our "non-hazardous" household products.   
----- >
----- >Pharmaceuticals can use some highly toxic and flammable 
----- >materials in the process if not in the actual commodity. 
----- > Some of the chemicals used are used to cause certain 
----- >reactions and are then discarded and not actually part 
----- >of the end product but they are in the process.  That's 
----- >why you've got to know the process not just the end product.
----- >
----- >Some pharmaceuticals and food products have used 
----- >acetone, hot oils, heat transfer fluids (class III's) 
----- >above their flash points, ethylene oxide, and the list goes on.  
----- >
----- >Again it's hard to make any assumptions when it comes to 
----- >these kinds of facilities.  
----- >
----- >So while a chemical plant could be OH2, they are kind of 
----- >like unicorns.
----- >
----- >
----- >Craig L. Prahl, CET   
----- >Fire Protection Group
----- >Mechanical Department
----- >CH2MHILL
----- >Lockwood Greene
----- >1500 International Drive
----- >PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491
----- >Direct - 864.599.4102
----- >Fax - 864.599.8439
----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >http://www.ch2m.com 
----- >
----- >-----Original Message-----
----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
----- >Behalf Of A.P.Silva
----- >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:11 PM
----- >To: [email protected]
----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants?
----- >
----- >There could be chemical plants that are OH2. Say a plant 
----- >manufacturing medical drugs. That would also be a 
----- >chemical plant. If the processed material and products 
----- >are non-hazardous, it could be OH2. Say a plant that 
----- >manufactures toothpaste. I have no clue regarding 
----- >materials involved. But if they are non-hazardous, could 
----- >qualify for OH2. NFPA 45 for chemical laboratories 
----- >classify labs OH1 and OH2 depending on the lab classification.
----- >The key is what are the material involved?
----- >
----- >Tony   
----- >
----- >-----Original Message-----
----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
----- >Behalf Of Todd Williams
----- >- FPDC
----- >Sent: March 6, 2008 11:15 AM
----- >To: [email protected]
----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants?
----- >
----- >I'm glad to see others seem to be thinking along the 
----- >same lines. This is the second design-build chemical 
----- >facility project this year with no engineering or 
----- >insurance company input and no company policies on fire 
----- >protection other than 'code says we need sprinklers'.
----- >
----- >Let me pose this: if there is no such thing as an 
----- >'ordinary chemical plant'
----- >and they all require specific engineering analysis per 
----- >NFPA 30, is NFPA doing a disservice by including this in 
----- >13? Anybody can read that statement and decide that a 
----- >facility is an ordinary chemical plant and protect it as
----- >OH2 when it should be analyzed and could be a lot 
----- >higher. Don't mean to dis the sprinkler bible, but this 
----- >type of statement could have some unintended consequences.
----- >
----- >
----- >At 12:07 PM 3/6/2008, you wrote:
----- >>I have never done a chemical processing facility that 
----- >fell under NFPA
----- >>13 and never an OH occupancy. Usually they fall under 
----- >NFPA 30 or a more
----- >
----- >>stringent and specific FM criteria.  Each plant 
----- >requires a detailed 
----- >>hazards analysis of the process, equipment types and 
----- >purpose, MSDS info
----- >
----- >>as well as building construction among other issues to 
----- >determine the 
----- >>proper protection approach.
----- >>
----- >>The other issue is that there are new technologies 
----- >being born every
----- >day.
----- >>Each new product being used or produced doesn't always 
----- >have a page of 
----- >>it's own in the code.  So it takes some homework and 
----- >detailed analysis 
----- >>when it comes to determining fire protection criteria 
----- >for these kinds 
----- >>of facilities.
----- >>
----- >>"Ya gotta love it!"
----- >>
----- >>
----- >>Craig L. Prahl, CET
----- >>Fire Protection Group
----- >>Mechanical Department
----- >>CH2MHILL
----- >>Lockwood Greene
----- >>1500 International Drive
----- >>PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC  29304-0491 Direct - 
----- >864.599.4102 Fax -
----- >>864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com
----- >>
----- >>-----Original Message-----
----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On 
----- >Behalf Of Todd 
----- >>Williams - FPDC
----- >>Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:26 AM
----- >>To: [email protected]
----- >>Subject: Ordinary chemical plants?
----- >>
----- >>In NFPA 13, under the section describing OH2 
----- >occupancies, they mention 
----- >>"Chemical plants - ordinary". What is an ordinary 
----- >chemical plant?
----- >>
----- >>Todd G. Williams, PE
----- >>Fire Protection Design/Consulting
----- >>Stonington, Connecticut
----- >>www.fpdc.com
----- >>860.535.2080
----- >>_______________________________________________
----- >>Sprinklerforum mailing list
----- >>[email protected]
----- >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
----- >>
----- >>To Unsubscribe, send an email
----- >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) 
----- >>_______________________________________________
----- >>Sprinklerforum mailing list
----- >>[email protected]
----- >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
----- >>
----- >>To Unsubscribe, send an email
----- >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
----- >
----- >Todd G. Williams, PE
----- >Fire Protection Design/Consulting
----- >Stonington, Connecticut
----- >www.fpdc.com
----- >860.535.2080
----- >_______________________________________________
----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list
----- >[email protected]
----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum
----- >
----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email
----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
----- >
----- >_______________________________________________
----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list
----- >[email protected]
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----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email
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----- >_______________________________________________
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