Many years ago (when I made an honest living as a helper) I worked in a plant that made artificial sweetener for sodas. I vowed never to let my children drink a soda that required all that chemical protective equipment just for me to hang pipe.
R/ Matt Matthew J. Willis Living Water Fire Protection, LLC. 1160 McKenzie Rd. PO Box 877 Cantonment, FL. 32533 850-937-1850 Voice 850-937-1852 Facsimile [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 1:38 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants? ----- > ----- >Toothpaste, uh, you'd die if you knew some of the stuff ----- >that goes into ----- >making some of our "non-hazardous" household products. ----- > ----- >Pharmaceuticals can use some highly toxic and flammable ----- >materials in the process if not in the actual commodity. ----- > Some of the chemicals used are used to cause certain ----- >reactions and are then discarded and not actually part ----- >of the end product but they are in the process. That's ----- >why you've got to know the process not just the end product. ----- > ----- >Some pharmaceuticals and food products have used ----- >acetone, hot oils, heat transfer fluids (class III's) ----- >above their flash points, ethylene oxide, and the list goes on. ----- > ----- >Again it's hard to make any assumptions when it comes to ----- >these kinds of facilities. ----- > ----- >So while a chemical plant could be OH2, they are kind of ----- >like unicorns. ----- > ----- > ----- >Craig L. Prahl, CET ----- >Fire Protection Group ----- >Mechanical Department ----- >CH2MHILL ----- >Lockwood Greene ----- >1500 International Drive ----- >PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 ----- >Direct - 864.599.4102 ----- >Fax - 864.599.8439 ----- >[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >http://www.ch2m.com ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of A.P.Silva ----- >Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 2:11 PM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants? ----- > ----- >There could be chemical plants that are OH2. Say a plant ----- >manufacturing medical drugs. That would also be a ----- >chemical plant. If the processed material and products ----- >are non-hazardous, it could be OH2. Say a plant that ----- >manufactures toothpaste. I have no clue regarding ----- >materials involved. But if they are non-hazardous, could ----- >qualify for OH2. NFPA 45 for chemical laboratories ----- >classify labs OH1 and OH2 depending on the lab classification. ----- >The key is what are the material involved? ----- > ----- >Tony ----- > ----- >-----Original Message----- ----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Todd Williams ----- >- FPDC ----- >Sent: March 6, 2008 11:15 AM ----- >To: [email protected] ----- >Subject: RE: Ordinary chemical plants? ----- > ----- >I'm glad to see others seem to be thinking along the ----- >same lines. This is the second design-build chemical ----- >facility project this year with no engineering or ----- >insurance company input and no company policies on fire ----- >protection other than 'code says we need sprinklers'. ----- > ----- >Let me pose this: if there is no such thing as an ----- >'ordinary chemical plant' ----- >and they all require specific engineering analysis per ----- >NFPA 30, is NFPA doing a disservice by including this in ----- >13? Anybody can read that statement and decide that a ----- >facility is an ordinary chemical plant and protect it as ----- >OH2 when it should be analyzed and could be a lot ----- >higher. Don't mean to dis the sprinkler bible, but this ----- >type of statement could have some unintended consequences. ----- > ----- > ----- >At 12:07 PM 3/6/2008, you wrote: ----- >>I have never done a chemical processing facility that ----- >fell under NFPA ----- >>13 and never an OH occupancy. Usually they fall under ----- >NFPA 30 or a more ----- > ----- >>stringent and specific FM criteria. Each plant ----- >requires a detailed ----- >>hazards analysis of the process, equipment types and ----- >purpose, MSDS info ----- > ----- >>as well as building construction among other issues to ----- >determine the ----- >>proper protection approach. ----- >> ----- >>The other issue is that there are new technologies ----- >being born every ----- >day. ----- >>Each new product being used or produced doesn't always ----- >have a page of ----- >>it's own in the code. So it takes some homework and ----- >detailed analysis ----- >>when it comes to determining fire protection criteria ----- >for these kinds ----- >>of facilities. ----- >> ----- >>"Ya gotta love it!" ----- >> ----- >> ----- >>Craig L. Prahl, CET ----- >>Fire Protection Group ----- >>Mechanical Department ----- >>CH2MHILL ----- >>Lockwood Greene ----- >>1500 International Drive ----- >>PO Box 491, Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 Direct - ----- >864.599.4102 Fax - ----- >>864.599.8439 [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://www.ch2m.com ----- >> ----- >>-----Original Message----- ----- >>From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >>[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On ----- >Behalf Of Todd ----- >>Williams - FPDC ----- >>Sent: Thursday, March 06, 2008 11:26 AM ----- >>To: [email protected] ----- >>Subject: Ordinary chemical plants? ----- >> ----- >>In NFPA 13, under the section describing OH2 ----- >occupancies, they mention ----- >>"Chemical plants - ordinary". What is an ordinary ----- >chemical plant? ----- >> ----- >>Todd G. Williams, PE ----- >>Fire Protection Design/Consulting ----- >>Stonington, Connecticut ----- >>www.fpdc.com ----- >>860.535.2080 ----- >>_______________________________________________ ----- >>Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >>[email protected] ----- >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- >> ----- >>To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >>_______________________________________________ ----- >>Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >>[email protected] ----- >>http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- >> ----- >>To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >>to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >>(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- >Todd G. Williams, PE ----- >Fire Protection Design/Consulting ----- >Stonington, Connecticut ----- >www.fpdc.com ----- >860.535.2080 ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- > ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ----- >_______________________________________________ ----- >Sprinklerforum mailing list ----- >[email protected] ----- >http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum ----- > ----- >To Unsubscribe, send an email ----- >to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] ----- >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
