John, You are right on the money.
For years I've worked with a one stop shop and now I work with a less-than one stop shop. I also have done a heck of a lot of NFPA 25 and NFPA 72 inspections over the years. The overall quality, and lack of "holes" in a one stop design/build fire protection SYSTEM is generally less (there are exceptions). A lot of details (setting of OS&Y tampers, is one minor example) get missed by everyone when a bunch of little narrow focused shops are used on one project (no disrespect to the many excellent high quality low cost excellent narrowed focused sprinkler only or alarm only shops out there is intended). The tamper switch is a good one. The 'failure mode' happens this way. The sprinkler guy installs it on the OS&Y but doesn't wire it. Because he doesn't wire it (that's the alarm guy's job) the switch doesn't get adjusted. The alarm guy wires it but he doesn't adjust it either, that the sprinkler's guy's job. Then you have a fire final that isn't done the way it ought to be done. I show up a year later to do NFPA 25 work and find the panel is clear when I have the valve CLOSED or partially closed (by-pass butterflies on a fire pump have been found wired backwards years after the design, install, approval and occupancy with resultant increase in fire load..oops.). One stops with their alarm and sprinkler departments may or do have problems but my experience shows they (one stops) work better together than two entirely different small shops doing different things. Lack of proper repair to fire rated assembly penetrations would be another common issue when non-one stop shops are used (fire stop, fire chalk). No one bids the work, no one wants to do the work, and then there might be lack of enforcement and clearly its out of scope when I show up to do my 25s and 72s. The interaction of the GC, A/Es and qualified "overseer" seems to be a contributing problem, particularly when one-stop shops aren't utilized. Keep in mind I work for a sprinkler-only firm now, I've seen it from both sides. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of John Drucker Sent: Tuesday, January 06, 2009 9:46 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: another fire - this will be interesting Simply put "fire protection" is not seamless. Often enough it's a patchwork of pieces and parts assembled without a clear and common objective. We see this everyday with smoke detectors being installed in unsprinklered elevator hoistways because no one told the alarm engineer that sprinklers had been eliminated by the sprinkler engineer, or fire dampers installed in one hour walls in fully sprinklered buildings because no one told the mechanical engineer. The disconnect with the fire service is yet another example, site planning left to the civil engineer without regard to fire protection needs. What we need are MEPF firms, engineering firms that employ and fully utilize fire protection engineers to look at the big picture, assess, plan, design, coordinate and supervise cost effective and efficient fire protection solutions. If as a fire protection engineer you're simply designing fire alarm or sprinkler systems you are not working to your full potential ! There are firms that provide life safety analysis to provide passive fire protection solutions, often coined working for the "dark side" they nonetheless do what others are not, looking at the big picture. High rise sprinklers in Chicago or San Diego anyone ? So how does the active fire protection community counter this claim, perhaps by long term planning, synergistic value driven engineering. It goes all the way back to codes and standards, how many cycles did it take to recognize sprinklers in fully sprinklered buildings for notification survivability on fire alarm systems ? One stop shopping ladies and gentlemen, one stop shopping. Sincerely John Drucker Fire Protection Subcode Official (AHJ) Building/Fire/Electrical Inspector Safe Buildings Save Lives ! _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
