Steve Dissolved oxygen levels are as important as the dissolved minerals - worth having a sample taken now for full analysis and then repeating the exercise at say, six monthly intervals before borescoping or removing pipe sections for examination. I had lots of experience with brackish water in Bahrain and none of it good. We filled all fire mains and tanks with 'sweet water' (desalinated water from flash distillers with some added minerals) and then had to flush any line that was used before refilling.
Regards Stewart Stewart Kidd On 27 Jul 2009, at 11:06, Steve Kowkabany wrote: > Thom, > > I suggested the same thing about filling the line with fresh water > and it > turns out o be 22,000 gallons I capacity for the long lengths of 12" > and 16" > they would have to flush. They balked at this since it is a small > well that > feeds the site and no public water. > > The 20 years max life you mentioned is kind of what I was thinking > also. > Thanks for your feedback and everyone else's. > > > Steve Kowkabany, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC > 616 Davis Street > Neptune Beach, FL 32266 > 904-652-4200 Phone > 904-212-0868 Fax > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom > McMahon > Sent: Friday, July 24, 2009 10:42 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Expected life of painted steel fire main with brackish > water in > it > > Have they considered filling the pipe with "Fresh" water, and > flushing the > brackish after each annual test to prolong the life of the pipe. A > brackish > water sample and a pipe sample given to a lab might give you some > indication > of the possible life of the pipe, but nothing is fool proof. Is all > the pipe > of the same lot and MFG? Are the water conditions constant? Does the > air > temp fluctuate, since it is an elevated line, raising and lowering > the water > temp. which could promote or inhibit corrosion. > > Tell them the worst case is they have to replace it next year, and > the best > case is it's still there and working 20 years from now. > > Thom McMahon, SET > Firetech, Inc. > 2560 Copper Ridge Dr > P.O. Box 882136 > Steamboat Springs, CO 80488 > Tel: 970-879-7952 > Fax: 970-879-7926 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve > Kowkabany > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 6:00 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Expected life of painted steel fire main with brackish > water in > it > > Close Todd, it's only about 20 miles from Orange Park. I forgot to > mention > that it is aboveground pipe. It's totally clean right now and has > only just > had brackish water introduced to it, so right now it's perfect. > > They are just asking how long can they expect it to last? > > > Steve > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd > Williams > Sent: Thursday, July 23, 2009 7:36 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Expected life of painted steel fire main with brackish > water in > it > > Has this pipe seen brackish water in the past? Perhaps sending a > camera into > the pipe and see what is going on will answer you question. Also, > the life > expectancy of buried Sch 40 might be in question, brackish or not. > Remember > that for free standing FDC's, we use galvanized pipe with an exterior > coating. No specific experience, just some thoughts. Sounds like > it's around > Orange Park. > > > At 05:58 PM 7/23/2009, you wrote: >> Anyone have any historical data or experience with how long sch 40 >> steel piping typically lasts outside when filled with brackish >> (somewhat salty) water? >> >> >> >> I have an industrial project where the client wants to reuse some >> decommissioned existing 16" sch 40 painted steel product piping as >> their > new >> fire water main. It would be nice to do this, because they need >> about >> one mile of fire main 12" or larger and this line is already there, >> in >> place, and currently unused. >> >> >> >> The water supply is the Saint Johns river (vertical turbine pump on a > dock), >> which is normally fresh water but it's brackish at this site - >> which is >> about 6-7 miles from the ocean and gets a good amount of salinity >> with >> the tides. >> >> >> >> Does anyone have a feel for how long steel pipe will last in this >> type >> of application? It will be normally wet and filled entirely with >> water. It will likely only be flowed annually with their yearly >> testing. >> >> >> >> Thanks in advance for the insights, >> >> >> >> >> >> Steve Kowkabany, P.E. >> >> Fire Protection Engineer >> >> Neptune Fire Protection Engineering LLC >> >> 616 Davis Street >> >> Neptune Beach, FL 32266 >> >> 904-652-4200 Phone >> >> 904-212-0868 Fax >> >> >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email >> to:[email protected] >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > Todd G. Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, Connecticut > www.fpdc.com > 860.535.2080 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.21/2252 - Release Date: > 07/23/09 > 06:02:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > Version: 8.5.387 / Virus Database: 270.13.26/2257 - Release Date: > 07/23/09 > 18:00:00 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list http://lists.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
