I don't disagree with Jack but would add the following. We Americans think of fire slightly different than our cousins elsewhere. A fire chief in Tokyo resigned in disgrace a number of years ago because of something like one fire death. Dude it's a population of like 20 million, little 'ol Minnesota population 5 million has about 40 a year. And we cheer our success. There is a city in Europe about the same size as St. Paul, MN. Can't recall the name. They have one fire station and like 30 or 40 FF on duty. St. Paul has/had 16 stations and about 100 on duty. There was even a time when European fire experts laughed at the notion of smoke detectors in homes. Don't have a fire in the first place was the thought. I know the culture was changing so I won't say it's the same today.
"would be expensive and would do little to prevent further fires." This is absolutely a true statement in any culture. Human behavior prevents fires. Sprinklers or smoke detectors do not prevent fires. Just because rebuilding a school is more expensive doesn't make sprinklers not expensive, just less expensive. We do it here too. It's far easier to find emergency money than less money for preventative measures. This far extends beyond fire issues. "Sprinklers are not there to stop buildings burning down," Mr Lucas said today. "Sprinklers are there to allow people to escape from them in situations whereby there is a fire." This is something we've drilled into our clients for decades. We've always stressed "what about the children". True the property side is real but our marketing has been less on that side. Australia or at least some parts have big wild fire problems. Perhaps they think of that as more of a threat. Also remember the water infrastructure elsewhere is not what we have. This could have some bearing on the development of the culture. We have very few tanks and pumps. Think of the lack of sprinklers we'd have today if the rate of tanks and/or pumps was much higher. Oh and don't discount it here. Watch your fire chiefs. There was a move a foot not more than 8 or 9 years ago to only require 1 head in the kitchen in single family homes and call it good. Don't assume 13D is an accepted minimum. I totally disagree with the PM but that's my culture. Factor in culture and it might make more sense even if we will continue to disagree. Chris Cahill, P.E. Fire Protection Engineer Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. 763-658-4483 763-658-4921 fax Email: [email protected] Mail: P.O. Box 69 Waverly, MN 55390 Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW Waverly, MN 55390 -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 8:20 PM To: [email protected] Cc: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Emailing: 0,27574,26103636-29277,00 This totally depends on who's reading statistics for what particular reason. He is absolutely right! If you use only the view of some fire safety engineers, and even some government boards/departments run by fire safety engineers, or sponsored by some property developers who don't want to pay for a sprinkler system (they think it's too costly) but have to allow for skeleton-sprinkler only to save a few $ per sqm, that's what you get: Definition of residential sprinkler protection, to save lives only, give people extra time to evacuate, full stop. Oh the building burns down, that's not their worry, it is left to the building owner and his/her insurer. And that's why insurers in Australia has been trying to get back into the scene: Guys, sprinklers actually put the fire out you know, and instead if bare-bones you install a decent system, you do not need to worry about property loss of business interruption etc. You have to admit they got their message thru, 'saves lives', they just did not want people/politicians to understand that a decent protection would cost you just a few dollars more during construction, unlike fancy systems they recommend that cost an-arm-and-a-leg to maintain and document regularly for the life of the building, But then again, after they build and get certified for occupancy (let's not get into private certification here) , who needs to worry? They are out of the picture in 364 days and 23 hours and 59 minutes, fire protection industry and insurance industry stay there for good. Mind you a large proportion of fire safety engineers I personally know would actually explain their client that this is not for the best interest of the owners or businesses running there, but this piece of paper usually is forgotten in a report filed somewhere. Off the soapbox for now, Cheers Jack C Kilavuz Senior Consultant RMS Mob: +65 9277 5741 Save Paper ? Save Power ? Save the Environment - Think before printing this e-mail! Ron Greenman <[email protected]> Sent by: [email protected] 22/09/2009 07:29 AM Please respond to [email protected] To [email protected] cc Subject Re: Emailing: 0,27574,26103636-29277,00 Perhaps he needs to read the fire statistics from his own country. I think a lot of our early arguments where based on Australian data since they'd had a long history of keeping such data and we hadn't. On Mon, Sep 21, 2009 at 2:04 PM, Thomas Reinhardt <[email protected]> wrote: > I think the Acting premier needs to be introduced to Mr.Flow Switch and educate himself on sprinkler systems. > The message is ready to be sent with the following file or link attachments: > > Shortcut to: http://www.news.com.au/story/0,27574,26103636-29277,00.html > > > Note: To protect against computer viruses, e-mail programs may prevent sending or receiving certain types of file attachments. Check your e-mail security settings to determine how attachments are handled. > > IMPORTANT NOTICE: This e-mail message is intended to be received only by persons entitled to receive the confidential information it may contain. E-mail messages may contain information that is confidential and legally privileged. Please do not read, copy, forward, or store this message unless you are an intended recipient of it. If you have received this message in error, please forward it to the sender and delete it completely from your computer system. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) ______________________________________________________________ Notice of Confidentiality This transmission contains information that may be confidential and that may also be privileged. Unless you are the intended recipient of the message (or authorised to receive it for the intended recipient) you may not copy, forward, or otherwise use it, or disclose it or its contents to anyone else. If you have received this transmission in error please notify us immediately and delete it from your system. RSA Group ============================================================== _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
