Greg, How about north and west? Seismic zones and about 15F all week. Not all winter weather but at least once a year. Eastern washington colder yet and still seismic.
On Fri, Dec 11, 2009 at 12:24 PM, Greg McGahan <g...@livingwaterfp.com> wrote: > My 2 cents worth is thus: We life in a climate where a real freeze only > occurs every 10 or so years, the last true hard freeze here in which there > was significant damage from the temps was around 96 or 97. Nearly all of the > corrosion that we see on wet and dry systems is from the outside in not from > the inside out. I have never seen a dry system that was seriously damaged > from roll grooved pipe, or MIC in this area. I would almost say that the > money spent on a large percentage of dry systems here is not well spent > barring the paranormal freeze. > > I think the issue is that as the use of the NFPA codes has expanded, and the > rules have been better defined and more issues have been addressed, that the > fact that there is HUGE diversity in the practical needs across the country > has been overlooked to some degree on purpose in favor of standardization. > > I stay out of many of these threads because the issue you guys face up North > are so far from the world that I know that your needs are completely > different and more important than the same issues here. BUT, cut grooving > schedule 40 here in order to keep from trapping water in a coupling or using > a tri-seal coupling would not gain you much down here. > > Greg McGahan > Operations Manager > > Living Water Fire Protection > 1160 McKenzie Road > P.O. Box 877 > Cantonment, Florida 32533 > (850) 937.1850 | Fax (850) 937.1852 | Cell (850) 554.3231 > g...@livingwaterfp.com > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:58 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: tri seal gaskets > > No invoice, no opinion? :) > > I don't think I'm wrong in stereotyping most sprinkler contractors as being > a bit myopic when it comes to the big picture and our cost relative to it. > > Sure, most of our customers want to spend less- or nothing- on sprinklers. > HOWEVER, when the total system cost over the life of the building is > analyzed, upgrades may be cheaper than replacing the system or the > interference with operations that sprinkler problems can create- and I'm not > even addressing damage. > > Am I correct that a little education is all that is necessary to convince > owners to stay the course of your upgrade, and buy peace of mind? I believe > it costs more to LIGHT the building over its life than it does to BUILD the > place. So while it looks like a lot when we're only looking at our pricing, > look at the big picture and understand why we're last trade bought out. > > When we've suggested design changes in DB work we were quickly educated that > while you can save a branchline per bay, the effect of a change in the steel > was a quantum increase in comparison to the paltry $ we were saving. > > If your work is 1~5% of construction, we'd have to be free to overcome a > change in building steel of only 5% of 38% of the building cost that steel > may represents. > > Glc > Ps- I made up the 38% for steel as % of total building cost. Seemed close > enough for illustration purposes. > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Scott A. > Futrell > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 11:34 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: tri seal gaskets > > George, > > I'm not Dave or Mark, and I don't have opinions (!), but the experiences are > bad with rusting (all the way through in less than 20 years) to freeze and > pipe separation - without flush seal gaskets. We spec sch. 40 with cut > grooves, but get much negative feedback for conservative, more costly > approach. Btw -7°F here this morning, but now it's +7! > > Scott > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of George Church > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 10:18 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: tri seal gaskets > > Before Frozen Dave became an SH wizard, he'd have chimed in here about the > "mini-dams" that get created when roll-grooved piping has condensation > puddling both in the pipe ends uphill from the groove intruding up into the > bottom of the pie, as well as the water sitting in the gasket. Potential for > corrosion and freeze/break. Not much we'll be doing about the puddling on > the bottom of the pipe, short of using Sch40 and cutgrooving (or thread it!) > but the area on the bottom of the coupling may be subject to a freeze/break. > > Since he's native North Dakota, I'll defer to his expertise and experience > with cold far surpassing anything I'd tolerate before moving south. > > Mark, you're entitled to an opinion on this and have remained in the same > tundra. Do you experience problems from liquids accumulating in these lower > areas? I can't ask Dave now, he'd suggest clean agent or Hi-Ex. > > glc > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of John Denhardt > Sent: Friday, December 11, 2009 9:21 AM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: tri seal gaskets > > Any gasket that is listed for dry pipe service may be used. Most > manufacture's recommend using one but the other "less expensive" gaskets > are usually listed for dry pipe service. > > John > > John August Denhardt, P.E. > Strickland Fire Protection Incorporated > 5113 Berwyn Road > College Park, Maryland 20740 > Office Telephone Number: 301-474-1136 > Mobile Telephone Number: 301-343-1457 > FIRE SPRINKLERS SAVE LIVES > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Bob > Caputo > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 5:35 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: tri seal gaskets > > Other than NFPA 13, section 6.5.3.3 "Grooved fittings, including > gaskets > used on dry-pipe, preaction, and deluge systems, shall be listed for dry > pipe service" ? > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Robert > Thompson > Sent: Tuesday, December 08, 2009 1:43 PM > To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > Subject: tri seal gaskets > > Is there a code that required couplings to have tri seal gaskets in dry > systems? > > > Thank you > Robert Thompson > > DAKOTA > FIRE PROTECTION > 1710 N. Washington Street > Grand Forks ND 58206-5327 > Phone # (701) 772-8820 > Fax # (701) 772-7932 > Email rob...@dakotafire.com > > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, WSAFM _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: supp...@firesprinkler.org To Unsubscribe, send an email to:sprinklerforum-requ...@firesprinkler.org (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
