Space on opposite sides not to exceed 1/2 the distance and sleep well. You wouldn't think twice if this was inside a building 20' off the floor would you?
IMHO Greg McGahan On 5/27/2010 2:02 PM, Chris Cahill wrote: > One use of the table is if I can comply with it the next sprinkler can be > the maximum distance from the first that is taking care of the underneath. > > So in a 1' deep 'beam' 1st sprinkler is 3' off the side (assuming a 2.5" > deflector). The sprinkler on the other side is up to 15' from the first > sprinkler. Doesn't matter where the beam is related to on the second > sprinkler 'cuz the first will spray under. And in the 2' wide beam could be > 10' off the side of the beam with the second head. > > But if I'm 2'11" off the side (same deflector of 2.5" down) with the first > head, then the next head must be at MOST 7.5' from the center of the 'beam'. > If we have a 2' wide 'beam' the head spacing is only 7.5' plus 1' plus 2'11" > for 11'4" between the heads. > > At times this 3'8" spacing difference might make a difference in what is on > the other side of the second head. If it's a wall say 9'6" away from the > second head you just put in a third head. But in the first example a third > head would not be necessary. > > In my 5' deep beam problem the chart doesn't go that far so I have no choice > but to space both sides to the center line of the beam. Really it's become > an infinitely thin wall on the centerline of the beam for practical > purposes. If I don't have something in the way the heads might be 15' apart > but that's coincidence. If something is in the way the heads could be as > close as 2'8". > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard Carr > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:21 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > No, I am not picking any fights either, my option is that table > 8.6.5.1.2 and figure 8.6.5.1.2(a) 2007, give me a distance I need to > stay away from an obstruction, if not to throw under that why does the > distance increase the higher above the bottom you go? Why not just put > the heads right up against it? > > > Richard Carr, SET > Design Manager > Associated Sprinkler Co., LLC > 336.373.3901 ext 217 > [email protected] > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris > Cahill > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 4:12 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > I don't want to be argumentative but where does it say I have to throw > under > it. The charging section NFPA 13 (2002) 8.6.5.1.2 says comply with ONE > of > the following. Throwing under is an option in (1). I and Tony choose > (2) > which is our prerogative. Its not a comply with ALL section. > > We can be 4" off both sides and be compliant. We can also be 7.5' from > the > centerline or anything in between. It's really no different than a 47" > duct > 19" below the deflectors. And there the distance to the center line is > irrelevant. Head can be right on top of the centerline. > > Again what if your beam is I described 5' deep which is not uncommon in > double tee construction. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard > Carr > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:55 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > You will still need to throw water under it and at 36" deep you will > have to max out your spacing, hope you have good water supply. > > Richard Carr, SET > Design Manager > Associated Sprinkler Co., LLC > 336.373.3901 ext 217 > [email protected] > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Chris > Cahill > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:51 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > Looks like this NFPA 13 (2002) 8.6.5.1.2(2) applies perfectly. No > mention > of construction type or depth as a limit. 8.6.5.2.1.2 specifically > sends > you there for continuous obstructions. We call NFPA 13 (2002) > 8.6.5.1.2(2) > the 'beam rule' but you'll note never is 'beam' used. It can be used for > many things that are similar to a beam. > > If this doesn't work then I might have a problem with a 2' wide beam 5' > deep > holding up double tees. > > Chris Cahill, P.E. > Fire Protection Engineer > Sentry Fire Protection, Inc. > > 763-658-4483 > 763-658-4921 fax > > Email: [email protected] > > Mail: P.O. Box 69 > Waverly, MN 55390 > > Location: 4439 Hwy 12 SW > Waverly, MN 55390 > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard > Carr > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:39 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > With the 3' depth it makes it challenging, can you use extended coverage > heads? > > Richard Carr, SET > Design Manager > Associated Sprinkler Co., LLC > 336.373.3901 ext 217 > [email protected] > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 3:35 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > NFPA 13 (2002) 8.6.5.1.2(2), for obstructions not exceeding 4 feet > width. > > You don't think that will apply? > > Tony > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Richard > Carr > Sent: May 27, 2010 1:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Beam obstructions > > I would be concerned with NOT protecting the area under the 2' wide > plywood > , can't think of any exception that would allow you to not have > protection , > and because of the 3' depth you will have to have heads under the > enclose. > My 2 cents worth. > > Richard Carr, SET > Design Manager > Associated Sprinkler Co., LLC > 336.373.3901 ext 217 > [email protected] > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of A.P.Silva > Sent: Thursday, May 27, 2010 2:47 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Beam obstructions > > I have a crawlspace that has to be sprinklered. I need to get exact > measurements, but for now I'm guessing it is about 4 feet high. The > plywood > ceiling of the crawlspace tight to the bottom of main floor joists is > smooth > & flat. The problem is the crawlspace has "utilidors", enclosed heated > spaces for running ducts, piping etc. Generally, these utilidors, > encased > with plywood, are 2 feet wide (horizontal) and about 3 feet high > (vertical)and run everywhere in the crawlspace, with no set pattern. > Think > of the utilidors as wood beams coming down from the ceiling. I will have > sprinklers inside the udilidors if they are not filled up with ducts or > piping. My question is there is about a foot of space below the > utilidors. > My opinion is it should be okay if I space the heads on both sides of > the > obstruction complying with 13(2007) section 8.6.5.1.2 (2) and not > provide > additional heads below the obstruction. Any dissenting thoughts? > > Tony > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely > for > the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should > not > read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions > expressed > in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the > company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no > viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept > responsibility > for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or > attachments. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely > for > the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should > not > read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions > expressed > in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the > company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no > viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept > responsibility > for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or > attachments. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely > for > the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should > not > read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions > expressed > in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the > company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no > viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept > responsibility > for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or > attachments. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > This email and any attached files are confidential and intended solely for > the intended recipient(s). If you are not the named recipient you should not > read, distribute, copy or alter this email. Any views or opinions expressed > in this email are those of the author and do not represent those of the > company. Warning: Although precautions have been taken to make sure no > viruses are present in this email, the company cannot accept responsibility > for any loss or damage that arise from the use of this email or attachments. > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
