Thanks Ron- you got me- I knew I should have said helium on its way to becoming liquid helium on its way to NIST :) What do you think about 'manual easily converted to automatic'?
-----Original Message----- From: Ron Greenman [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 8:32 PM To: [email protected]; [email protected] Subject: Re: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system Brad, Boiling point of liquid helium 4 at one atmosphere: -268.95 C. Liquid helium 3: -269.95 C. On Mon, Jul 19, 2010 at 12:38 PM, Brad <[email protected]> wrote: > Whooo! I thought maybe you were a half-way house for liquid helium on its > way to NIST! Good luck with your problem- let us know how it turns out. > > -----Original Message----- > From: David Bitton [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 2:17 PM > To: [email protected]; [email protected] > Subject: RE: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system > > I would like to clarify that the temperature in the freezer is -4, not -40F. > The character after the 4 was the degree sign, not a zero. (Still a pretty > cold environment to be working in. That's also why any solution involving > tripping the system and filling it with water is not practical.) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brad > Sent: Monday, July 19, 2010 1:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system > > -40! (at that temp, C and F are the same). Wouldn't the fitter trying to > find the leaks have to be wearing a ski-mask, ear muffs, goggles, etc-- > i.e., how do you hear, smell, see... or stick around for long? I guessed at > things like system size, CFM of air comp, etc. and it could happen that the > gage dropping could "look like a leak" for a couple hours until the whole > thing reached 'steady state'. Who can think of better fire protection than > keeping the combustible at -40? I do not question the need for sprinklers, > but I think the 'sudden need for automatic sprinklers' is absurd. Would > Manual easily converted to Automatic ever be considered by a committee?- > (put a normally closed control valve on top of the dry valve)? > > -----Original Message----- > From: tom poisal [mailto:[email protected]] > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 9:38 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system > > would definitely rule out the air maintenance device, DPV trim, drum drips, > quick opening device and all that, if you haven't already done so. > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 8:25 PM, max brown > <[email protected]>wrote: > >> >> Have used high air pressures to add the advantage of hearing the leak Also >> have used the AQUA VELVA in compressor hose. Works as well as Ahmani but >> cheaper. lol. Have had some sucess with both methods. Might try the high >> tech Helium leak detector practice by professional leak detection company >> but the air circulating , I assume complicates any method. Don't know of a >> reasonably priced liquid that freezes below -40; look for the drip. Maybe > on >> a Periodic Chemical chart there is an Element that would not freeze? >> >> > Date: Fri, 16 Jul 2010 12:36:46 -0700 >> > Subject: Re: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system >> > From: [email protected] >> > To: [email protected] >> > >> > Cold smoke like soldiers use for signaling. Pop a unit in the DPV, >> > close it up, and then pressure it. >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 11:28 AM, David Bitton >> > <[email protected]> wrote: >> > > Thank you everyone for your replies. We are still trying to find a > way >> to >> > > locate the leaks without tripping the system and/or putting the > freezer >> out >> > > of service. (The aroma therapy sure is tempting...) If that turns > out >> not >> > > to be possible, we will explore the other methods. >> > > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > > From: [email protected] >> > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ben >> Young >> > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 2:00 PM >> > > To: [email protected] >> > > Subject: Re: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system >> > > >> > > Frank Herrick gave a good way to find dry system leaks back in March, >> > > actually. >> > > >> > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/[email protected]/msg19989.html >> > > >> > > >> > > Benjamin Young >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 1:26 PM, David Bitton >> > > <[email protected]>wrote: >> > > >> > >> Yes, with the normal operating temperature at -4oF. With regards to >> the >> > >> ultrasonic leak detectors, those that I have seen are limited to >> operating >> > >> temperatures above freezing. >> > >> >> > >> -----Original Message----- >> > >> From: [email protected] [mailto: >> > >> [email protected]] On Behalf Of >> > >> [email protected] >> > >> Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 1:11 PM >> > >> To: [email protected] >> > >> Subject: Re: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system >> > >> >> > >> Is the freezer in service? >> > >> >> > >> LV >> > >> >> > >> >> > >> ---- tom poisal <[email protected]> wrote: >> > >> > Buckets of soapy water and soft bush with plenty of helpers to go >> over >> > >> > every fitting, joint and weld. >> > >> > >> > >> > On Fri, Jul 16, 2010 at 12:18 PM, Matt Grise <[email protected]> >> wrote: >> > >> > >> > >> > > There are leak detectors available that can detect the sound of >> air >> > >> leaking >> > >> > > from pipes. They can often do better than ears. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Matt Grisé PE*, LEED AP >> > >> > > Sales Engineer >> > >> > > Alliance Fire Protection >> > >> > > *Licensed in KS & MO >> > >> > > >> > >> > > 913.888.0647 ph >> > >> > > 913.888.0618 f >> > >> > > 913.927.0222 cell >> > >> > > www. AFPsprink.com >> > >> > > >> > >> > > -----Original Message----- >> > >> > > From: [email protected] [mailto: >> > >> > > [email protected]] On Behalf Of David >> Bitton >> > >> > > Sent: Friday, July 16, 2010 11:12 AM >> > >> > > To: [email protected] >> > >> > > Subject: Finding leaks in a dry pipe system >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Hello, >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > I have a large cold storage freezer facility that is protected by >> > >> several >> > >> > > dry pipe systems. The systems are currently shut off due to >> several >> > >> leaks. >> > >> > > A contractor used compressed air to pressurize the piping and > find >> > >> leaks, >> > >> > > which he has repaired (mostly coming from the grooved >> connections). >> > >> > > However, there are additional leaks which has not been able to >> find. >> > >> Is >> > >> > > anyone aware of other methods of finding the leaks (other than >> > >> compressed >> > >> > > air)? >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Thanks, >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > David Bitton, ing. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Quest Loss Control Services Inc. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Les services de prévention des sinistres Quest inc. >> > >> > > >> > >> > > 5100, rue de la Savane, bureau 200 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > Montréal, QC H4P 1T8 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > (514) 341-4545 >> > >> > > >> > >> > > www.questlosscontrol.com >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > >> > > [email protected] >> > >> > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > > >> > >> > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> [email protected] >> > >> > > >> > >> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > >> >> > > > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> <to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire >> > > sprinkler.org> >> > >> >> > > > <to%[email protected]<to%253ASprinklerforum-request > @firesprinkler.org> >> <to%253ASprinklerforum-request >> > > @firesprinkler.org> >> > >> > >> > >> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > >> > > [email protected] >> > >> > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > > >> > >> > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> [email protected] >> > >> > > >> > >> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > >> >> > > > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> <to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire >> > > sprinkler.org> >> > >> >> > > > <to%[email protected]<to%253ASprinklerforum-request > @firesprinkler.org> >> <to%253ASprinklerforum-request >> > > @firesprinkler.org> >> > >> > >> > >> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > >> > Tom Poisal, CET >> > >> > _______________________________________________ >> > >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > >> > [email protected] >> > >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: >> [email protected] >> > >> > >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > >> >> > > > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> <to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire >> > > sprinkler.org> >> > >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) 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unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > >> >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > > [email protected] >> > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > > >> > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > > >> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > >> > > _______________________________________________ >> > > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > > [email protected] >> > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > > >> > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > > >> > > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > >> > >> > >> > >> > -- >> > Ron Greenman >> > Instructor >> > Fire Protection Engineering >> > Bates Technical College >> > Tacoma, WA >> > >> > Member: >> > AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, > WFC >> > _______________________________________________ >> > Sprinklerforum mailing list >> > [email protected] >> > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> > >> > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> > >> > To Unsubscribe, send an email >> > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> The New Busy is not the too busy. Combine all your e-mail accounts with >> Hotmail. >> >> > http://www.windowslive.com/campaign/thenewbusy?tile=multiaccount&ocid=PID283 > 26::T:WLMTAGL:ON:WL:en-US:WM_HMP:042010_4 >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum >> >> For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] >> >> To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%3asprinklerforum-requ...@fire > sprinkler.org> >> (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) >> > > > > -- > Tom Poisal, CET > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Bates Technical College Tacoma, WA Member: AFT WA 4184/AFL-CIO, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
