Potential explosive danger is low. Natural ventilation at the ceiling will suffice, but should be to the outside. The potential for an explosion at floor / equipment level is almost nil. Hydrogen is extremely buoyant; the ignition will occur at ceiling level. How much ventilation is enough to dilute the hydrogen? Cracks at the high points of the ceiling or where a flat ceiling meets an exterior wall will do; ceiling openings even better. Cracks don't need to be big, just enough to slip a three credit cards into is sufficient. How many cracks for 4 forklift chargers? One quarter the room perimeter will do. Cracks should be to the outside or a larger space with-even-more-ventilation-to-the-outside than the battery room.
Explosions do happen, but are very rare. One UPS room was left operational after a Silicon Valley company moved out; it exploded. More common are accidents related to the batteries themselves than the gas. Arc flash, electrocution... Sprinklers don't help much with explosions, but this room will probably be used for storage at some point in its future, if not immediate life. scot deal excelsior fire On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 6:22 PM, Ron Greenman <[email protected]> wrote: > I'm inclined to not consider these necessarily as stored batteries. > But what is the potential explosive danger from off-gassing while > recharging. Large battery rooms with lead acid batteries that can > "breathe" and without special ventilation can be a problem of their > own. I'm not too interested this morning in searching through books > for free but you might want to take a walk down that path. > > On Thu, Sep 9, 2010 at 7:10 AM, Brian Harris <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Matt- > > Is it really considered storage just because they are in there charging > the > > batteries? What's to say that if the forklifts are parked out in the > > warehouse that the entire warehouse shouldn't be designed for Group A > > plastics? That's the problem I'm having in my own feeble little mind.... > > > > Brian Harris > > FDFP Inc. > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: [email protected] > > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Matthew > J. > > Willis > > Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 10:03 AM > > To: [email protected] > > Subject: RE: Commodity Question > > > > > > From the table in 13: > > > > b Most batteries have a polypropylene case and, if stored empty, should > be > > treated as a Group A plastic. Truck batteries, even where filled, should > be > > considered a Group A plastic because of their thicker walls. > > > > > > NFPA 505 Section 9.3 states there is to be "Fire Protection" > > > > Maybe some of the more "electrical" minded can provide more from 70..? > > > > R/ > > Matt > > > > > > > > > > > > Matthew J. Willis, CET > > Automatic Fire Sprinklers > > Norred Fire Systems L.L.C. > > 318-387-1134 Voice > > 318-816-1087 Mobile > > 318-387-1163 Facsimile > > [email protected] > > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: [email protected] [mailto:sprinklerforum- > >> >[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris > >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:39 AM > >> >To: [email protected] > >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question > >> > > >> >Craig- > >> >I would definitely say they are truck size (or larger) that's why I was > >> >leaning towards Group A. It just seems like overkill, I can't imagine > >> >there > >> >would be more than 5 or 10 in there at the most. Would you think the > >> >"charging" would create any additional concerns? I.e.: Gases... > >> > > >> >Brian Harris > >> >FDFP Inc. > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: [email protected] > >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> >[email protected] > >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:27 AM > >> >To: [email protected] > >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question > >> > > >> >Are the batteries standard car size or larger truck size? > >> > > >> >Look at NFPA 13, Table A.5.6.3, filled automobile batteries believe it > or > >> >not are considered a Class I commodity while truck batteries are > >> >considered > >> >Group A plastics. > >> > > >> >How many batteries are in the location, what size would you consider > them > >> >to > >> >be, auto or truck? > >> > > >> >Consider that in an automotive store that car batteries are on racks in > >> >fairly appreciable quantities and nothing extra ordinary is done to the > >> >overhead sprinkler systems in those areas. > >> > > >> >Apparently someone with more letters after their name than you and I > has > >> >determined that a water filled CAR battery is not a huge hazard. > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Craig L. Prahl, CET > >> >Fire Protection Specialist > >> >Mechanical Department > >> >CH2MHILL > >> >Lockwood Greene > >> >1500 International Drive > >> >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > >> >Direct - 864.599.4102 > >> >Fax - 864.599.8439 > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://www.ch2m.com > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: [email protected] > >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian > >> >Harris > >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:08 AM > >> >To: [email protected] > >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question > >> > > >> >Craig- > >> >I'm leaning towards Group A Plastics because of the batteries but don't > >> >want > >> >to overkill it either. > >> > > >> >Brian Harris > >> >FDFP Inc. > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: [email protected] > >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > >> >[email protected] > >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 9:01 AM > >> >To: [email protected] > >> >Subject: RE: Commodity Question > >> > > >> >Brian, > >> > > >> >I don't want this to come off as a smart retort, but if you look in > NFPA > >> >13, > >> >what is your first inclination as far as a protection scheme? > >> > > >> > > >> >Craig L. Prahl, CET > >> >Fire Protection Specialist > >> >Mechanical Department > >> >CH2MHILL > >> >Lockwood Greene > >> >1500 International Drive > >> >Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > >> >Direct - 864.599.4102 > >> >Fax - 864.599.8439 > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://www.ch2m.com > >> > > >> > > >> >-----Original Message----- > >> >From: [email protected] > >> >[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian > >> >Harris > >> >Sent: Thursday, September 09, 2010 8:33 AM > >> >To: [email protected] > >> >Subject: Commodity Question > >> > > >> >I have an ESFR Warehouse that has a 1600 sq.ft. room that is used for > >> >charging the forklift batteries, what should this room be designed to? > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >Thanks, > >> > > >> >Brian Harris > >> > > >> >First Defense Fire Protection > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >======= > >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > >> >http://www.pctools.com/ > >> >======= > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >======= > >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > >> >http://www.pctools.com/ > >> >======= > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >======= > >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > >> >http://www.pctools.com/ > >> >======= > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >======= > >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > >> >http://www.pctools.com/ > >> >======= > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> >======= > >> >Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > >> >(Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > >> >http://www.pctools.com/ > >> >======= > >> >_______________________________________________ > >> >Sprinklerforum mailing list > >> >[email protected] > >> >http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > >> > > >> >For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > >> > > >> >To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > >> >(Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > >> >No virus found in this incoming message. > >> >Checked by AVG - www.avg.com > >> >Version: 9.0.851 / Virus Database: 271.1.1/3108 - Release Date: > 09/08/10 > >> >12:41:00 > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > > > > > > > > > > > ======= > > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.15840) > > http://www.pctools.com/ > > ======= > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > [email protected] > > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > > > > > > -- > Ron Greenman > Instructor > Fire Protection Engineering Technology > Bates Technical College > 1101 So. Yakima Ave. > Tacoma, WA 98405 > > [email protected] > > http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ > > 253.680.7346 > 253.576.9700 (cell) > > Member: > AFSA, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, NFSA, AFAA, ASEE, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC > > They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis > Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email > to:[email protected]<to%[email protected]> > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
