It's not the questions that are asked that is the down fall of NFIRS but who is giving the answers. Blue collar FF's for the most part don't care about paper work. Sure there are a few exceptions but they become chief's and have bigger issues to deal with. IMHO NFIRS is useless but it is the best source because it is the only day to day source.
Chris -----Original Message----- From: å... .... <[email protected]> Sender: [email protected] Date: Sat, 29 Jan 2011 12:57:13 To: <[email protected]> Reply-To: [email protected] Subject: statistics: failure analysis: BFV: NFIRS: reality ;-) The forum's candor and perspective are sincerely appreciated, though you might have difficulty believing I sincerely mean that. For instance, I sincerely respect those who fund the Sprinkler Academy. Which is a weird reference that came to mind, because I see the Sprinkler Academy responded before this letter went out. Regarding "NFPA could and should champion better data collection on sprinkler system performance"... what was referred to was... NFPA asking better questions on its NFIRS (or sequel) existing data collection system. One of the secrets to better statistical understanding is simply.... asking better questions. NFIRS could ask better questions regarding sprinkler system performance, as well as ask better questions regarding other parameters from the fire scene. In fact, NFPA could make submittal of such data ridiculously easy for the FF and these data could be posted via the Net and available for ... at least the NFPA membership to see as it updates instantaneously. Who knows, maybe John Hall could get some summer interns who can figure out a way to Tweet the data in, and we all could listen in. Maybe it would be an interesting enough site that NFPA could sell advertizements in the margins because they were getting so many hits. If it improves the fire safety of our communities, without collateral damage from the adverts, I am for the consensus process sharing more of its valuable information so that we all learn faster. NFIRS was in place when I was riding backstep. I didn't save any lives. In fact, I am pretty sure I didn't do anyone any good while I was in that world, but it certainly made me humble and appreciative of the people that do. And it made me appreciate the kick in the butt I deserve for not communicating clearly and wasting people's time. But while I was not very good as a firefighter, that does NOT mean that there are NO fire departments out there qualified to evaluate sprinkler systems. That statement, while perhaps true in its attempt to brush a particular hue across an enormous canvas, does not encompass the many exceptional, remarkable and outstanding individual departments that excel at: sprinklers, fire prevention, cause and origin, in addition to good old fashioned manual suppression. Sure, there are a lot of departments that are resting on their civil salary laurels, but just as sure, there are plenty that are taking fire prevention to building associations, developers and city planners. That takes real cojones, or ovaries, to do one's job so well, that you reduce the need for your own job function, and you do it anyway because it helps society. To say "no" fire departments have qualified individuals to speak on cause-and-origin or fire sprinkler performance, when firefighters have seen and breathed more smoke and had more black snot come out of their noses (days after a fire) --- than any of us every wiped off our kids noses... to say that there are no fire departments out there qualified to evaluate the smoking remains of what they themselves were burning in and were the few who intimately knew the scene before overhauling and turning the pile of ashes over to the investigators. There are plenty of men and women fighting structure fires who have forgotten more about fire and ignition than most of us could dream up in one of our half-baked explanations for an overpaid and demoralized litigation, cause-and-origin investigation. There has been a lot of BS and ten-dollar words that pass for what is called expert witness testimony in fire tort. I don't provide expert witness testimony. That is one world I prefer to stay far, far away -- from except for reading handed-down decisions and notes from depositions. but for those individuals that do monetarily leverage themselves with this system, they should be required to reveal who pays them (as if it is not painfully obvious from some of their tortured explanations) and how much the motivation is. In fact, the courts should Tweet these stats. One could also consider rendering fuller disclosure, and Tweet the monthly nut of the testifying witnesses... to provide an additional insight as to the real world backpressure experienced on the wallet of those sworn to tell the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth. That or just hire independent panel of experts, rather than a jury that is usually so far over their head with the presented evidence, that they vote on who makes them feel good. Scot Deal Excelsior Fire What is NCIS and CSI? I don't watch TV, I prefer that other reality: reading. P.S. to answer "why do BFV fail so quickly?" the plated butterfly valves might be experiencing a "completed" circuit where the axial rod of the blocking plate inserts into the dissimilar metal (cast iron?) housing. Perhaps after years of service, at this axial-rod point-of-contact ... the plating first rubs off, exposes the underlying substrate metal and completes the circuit for galvanic corrosion to start. That or, perhaps the pressures against the relatively thin wafer of the BFV creates hairline fractures (same as the hairline fractures in 21 foot sticks of galvanized pipe) which become the conduit for completing the galvanic circuit. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field)
