Never been confused a day in my life. The AHJ was and still is WRONG, but since the owner was paying the bill and he said not to fight it we didn't! Has nothing and everything to do with right and wrong, but also can you afford to fight?
-----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 1:19 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 Sounds like there is some confusion with exterior fire hydrant spacing (IFC Appendix C) and it's requirements around the perimeter of the building with interior fire hose valve spacing (IBC 905.4) within the building. Note, 905.4 states that where the sprinklered floor is more than 200' from a hose connection (or 150' for unsprinklered bldgs), an 'additional' hose connection is permitted to be required by the building official. Another note, only paragraphs 905.3.1 thru 905.3.6 indicate where a 'standpipe' system is required (IBC 905.3). Paragraph 905.4 indicates where the 'FHV' location is required. Don't let anyone confuse you by combining the exterior fire hydrant(IFC) spacing requirements with the interior FHV(IBC) spacing requirements and therefore creating a need for an otherwise not required standpipe installation...unless it is written in a code amendment/executive regulation! Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Ronl.Fletcher [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 2:30 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 To this day Scottsdale requires 2.5" valves in stairs or inside one story buildings over 10,000 sqft. The rationale was explained to me some time ago but it was like "Hose valves are required within 200 ft of all parts of building (NFPA #14) so if there is no standpipe then all parts of the building must be with 200 ft. of fire truck access. If not 2.5" hose valves are required inside the building." Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 11:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 Ron: You exactly right! The AHJ's whom are always right? Use this in very strange ways. Had one job you could literal drive the engine around the building and always be a min of 20' maximum of 50' from a 2 story residential building with all the required Hydrants, stairs and sprinklered, but still had to put in a horz. Standpipe to the mid landings between the first and second floor. Still pisses me off. But the owner paid and said not to fight it, so what ya gonna do? -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Ronl.Fletcher Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 12:12 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 Thom, I have seen a lot of AHJ's twist the requirements but I don't believe there is a prescriptive interior standpipe trade off for required exterior fire lanes and hydrants. Ron Fletcher Aero Automatic Phoenix, AZ -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Thom Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:58 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 The other part of IBC/IFC is access to the building. Per IFC trucks have to be able to reach all sides of the building. I forget the specific measurement, but I think its within 130FT. or all exterior points of the building. Horz. Standpipes for even single story if you can't meet it. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 8:57 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 Agreed. Per NFPA 101: Laboratories using chemicals = NFPA 45. Laboratories in healthcare = NFPA 99. And other labs such as laser labs or sounds labs will follow other standards. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Fairchild, Jack [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:53 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes & NFPA 45 While true that NFPA 45 requires standpipes for lab buildings 2 stories or greater, not ALL lab buildings are required to follow NFPA 45. Jack Fairchild -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Johnson, Duane (NIH/OD/ORS) [C] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:23 AM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Standpipes There is more to it than just IBC...ie. all lab buildings 2 stories or more require standpipes per NFPA 45...look at NFPA 101 also...it is combination between building construction and an occupancy driven requirement. Duane Johnson, PE Program Manager Division of the Fire Marshal (Support Contractor) Office of Research Services National Institutes of Health 301-496-0487 "Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time" -----Original Message----- From: Morey, Mike [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 10:05 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes For what it's worth, buildings that extend more than 30' below the highest level of fire department access also require them (ussually underground parking structures trigger this part of the requirement, it's outlined in IFC 905.3: 905.3.1 Height. Class III standpipe systems shall be installed throughout buildings where the floor level of the highest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) above the lowest level of the fire department vehicle access, or where the floor level of the lowest story is located more than 30 feet (9144 mm) below the highest level of fire department vehicle access. R-3 occupancies are given an exception also Mike Morey, SET Sprinkler Designer BMW Constructors, Inc. O: 317.651.0596 | C: 317.439.2695 www.bmwc.com <https://owa.bmwc.com/exchweb/bin/redir.asp?URL=http://www.bmwc.com> ________________________________ From: [email protected] on behalf of Brian Harris Sent: Thu 3/24/2011 10:00 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Standpipes Jaber- Thanks! Brian Harris FDFP Inc. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Haji, Jaber M Sent: Thursday, March 24, 2011 9:55 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Standpipes When the BLDG height exceeds 9 M. Jaber M. Alhaji S.Aramco KSA On ???/???/????, at ?:?? ?, "Brian Harris" <[email protected]> wrote: > I don't do enough standpipes to remember a whole lot about their > requirements, but in a nut shell is it building height that mostly dictates > when they are needed or is more of the AHJ? > > > > Brian Harris > > First Defense Fire Protection > > 11957 Ramah Church Road > > Huntersville, NC 28078 > > Phone: 704.948.3506 > > Fax: 704.948.3507 > > Nicet # 128476 > > > > > > > > ======= > Email scanned by PC Tools - No viruses or spyware found. > (Email Guard: 7.0.0.21, Virus/Spyware Database: 6.17080) > http://www.pctools.com/ > ======= > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://fireball.firesprinkler.org/mailman/listinfo/sprinklerforum > > For Technical Assistance, send an email to: [email protected] > > To Unsubscribe, send an email to:[email protected] > (Put the word unsubscribe in the subject field) The contents of this email, including all related responses, files and attachments transmitted with it (collectively referred to as "this Email"), are intended solely for the use of the individual/entity to whom/which they are addressed, and may contain confidential and/or legally privileged information. 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