I know we don't have time to bid it once, but doing a base bid for what's 
shown, and an ADDER for the CC2's with a description like "required to meet 
code" and if they accept it, you and they are covered.
If they don't, then at least you have the leg to stand on that you educated 
them on what was needed, they declined to pay for it, and thereby (financially) 
directed you to proceed with the installation according to (defective) plans 
and specs.

Another way is to call the AHJ as you submit and inform him that your submittal 
doesn't meet code. When the dwgs are bounced, send a COR for the redesign time, 
schedule impact, and the original ADDER from your bid and ask for the extra 
again.
This puts them in the position of delaying the project, knowing they can't get 
a CO without sprinkler, and that your schedule impact will grow larger by the 
day.

It might also be worth pointing out to the GC or Owner you're working for that 
the PE that incorrectly designed it without the CC2s has liability insurance to 
cover the cost of fixing his mistakes- and this would be one of them. 

If we as an industry held their feet to the fire, we'd have less plumbing 
designers burping out faulty designs. If they didn't shape up, Victor O would, 
in rate premiums or withholding coverage, enforce compliance with practicing 
within their area of competence.


Boy, I sure hope bridge and tunnel construction doesn't have this same thing 
happening behind the scenes. I've stopped feeling comfortable being above the 
4th floor years ago, knowing elevator inspectors are likely just as sharp as 
DOH and our local  inspectors.


George L.  Church, Jr., CET  
Rowe Sprinkler Systems, Inc.
PO Box 407, Middleburg, PA 17842
877-324-ROWE       570-837-6335 fax
[email protected]



-----Original Message-----
From: [email protected] 
[mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Travis Mack, SET
Sent: Wednesday, October 05, 2011 1:45 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: Combustible Concealed Spaces

I know this has been brought up before, but how are you handling pre-engineered 
projects where they are not showing these specially listed heads (Tyco CC1/CC2 
or Viking COIN) as req'd per NFPA 13?  We are seeing several of these again 
where there is a flat roof, less than 36" 
of clearance between roof and ceiling and the PE is showing SSU sprinklers in 
the space.  These are projects that have been reviewed by the local AHJ and 
approved.  Do you just install per the plan and say the responsibility is to 
some one else?  In this particular jurisdiction, even if the piping is 
installed per the approved plans, the inspectors can and have required changes 
to the system to correct plan review errors.  What if the project gets 
installed / inspected per plan and there is a fire later on where the sprinkler 
system is not able to contain the fire in the concealed space because of 
incorrect heads?  
Where does the liability go?  One project in particular has the typical PE 
comment: The installing contractor is to take full responsibility for 
installing a system per NFPA 13 and shall add heads as needed at no additional 
costs after bid.  Is this able to transfer liability to the contractor?

One of my customers does a lot of multi-family type projects and we are seeing 
this over and over.  I have been working with him to educate his GC's and the 
architects / engineers on this issue, but there are still many projects that 
come across his desk for bid like this.  Does anyone have a practical solution? 
 We are trying to RFI these projects, but many times the PE will not respond to 
the questions prior to the bid date.

Sorry for the long run on questions.  Thanks in advance for your assistance.

--
Please feel free to call if you have any questions or comments.

Sincerely,

Travis Mack, SET
MFP Design, LLC
2508 E Lodgepole Drive
Gilbert, AZ 85298
Office (480) 505-9271
Fax (866) 430-6107

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