i guess i could run some numbers BEFORE i run my mouth. i think it imploded as opposed to exploded-- is their any doubt it did one or the other? i got this weekend off, so i'll give it more thought, including the doubt.

Quoting bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com:

no way Bruce-- impossible to overfill or over-pressurize this type of water storage tank


Quoting Bruce Verhei <bver...@comcast.net>:

Or the opposite. Tank provided with in adequate atomospheric ventilation, overfilled, and pressurized.

But I'd much rather hear from someone who has facts than listen to my own speculation.

Bv


Sent from my Motorola ATRIX™ 4G on AT&T

-----Original message-----
From: bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Sent: Sat, Nov 17, 2012 07:31:35 GMT+00:00
Subject: Re: water storage tank: 300,000 gallon size: failure: FL not NY

on the other hand, a vortex might relieve pressure on the circumference. i think it was a matter of like chris said-- a vaccumnn was drawn, if only for an instant, allowing the weight of the ocean of air above it to CRUSH it.
Quoting bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com:

the fill line would only have city water behind it, where-as the > metered return would have the fire pump behind it, meaning the > metered return could enter the tank anywhere and still prevail, but > there would be an elevation where the fill would be unable to STUFF > more water in-- interesting theory-- i do not agree with the > IF/Then, but the vortex thing makes sense

Quoting Kenneth Berman <thekennyber...@gmail.com>:

I am curious about the tank failure in Florida. I want to know if they were
using a meter loop to test the fire pump. I've seen some meter loops
discharge directly into the tank instead of being piped to the top of the
pool as the fill lines are. If piping the fill line to the top, shouldn't
the metered return line go to the top also? My concern is getting the tank
of water spinning in a vortex and making the tank collapse.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 1:00 PM, Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com> wrote:

Scot,

I tried searching OSHA and couldn't find anything more.

On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 10:59 AM, Ron Greenman <rongreen...@gmail.com
wrote:

I wrote that Brad. I can also lift heavy things.


On Fri, Nov 16, 2012 at 9:41 AM, Brad Casterline <
bcasterl...@fsc-inc.com>wrote:

scot,

i searched the archives yesterday when you posted this ('lake placid')
because i remember George Church first posted it several months ago. I
did
not reply because none of those posts said whether tank was bolted or
welded. Mistakes? as i type i am reminded of a quote i heard years ago
and i
use it nearly daily, since it fits me to a tee--
I MIGHT BE SLOW BUT I MAKE A LOT OF MISTAKES. (author unkown, to me
anyway).

-----Original Message-----
From: å... .... [mailto:eurekaig...@gmail.com]
Sent: Friday, November 16, 2012 11:18 AM
To: SprinklerFORUM@firesprinkler.org
Subject: water storage tank: 300,000 gallon size: failure: FL not NY

Tank fail was in FL, not NY--that they were wearing short sleeve shirts
in
early April should have been the clue.  Make mistakes?  I do.

I don't expect a response on this question, in part due to my conviction
that we work with Fire Codes that provide safety conditions
a-level-above-the-minimum.  If not, and we really were so close to
Occam's
dividing line between unsafe/safe, would we not be quicker to offer and
solve each other's life safety challenges and questions better?  It
appears
to me, that money and liability take a priority before volunteering to
improve safety. And that luxury suggests we are above-the-minimum level
of
safety.

best of health to you,


scot deal
excelsior fire




Does anyone know and care to share, whether the ~ 300,000 gallon tank
that
failed about the 7th of April in Lake Placid, NY in 2011 was a welded,
or
a
bolted tank?  I am doing no litigation work, nor I am being paid by any
party relative to this incident.



http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/185855/250/Massive-water-tank-bu
rsts-kills-two-following-tsunami-like-wave<
http://www.wtsp.com/news/topstories/article/185855/250/Massive-water-tank-bursts-kills-two-following-tsunami-like-wave


Scot Deal
Excelsior Fire Engineering
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--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis
Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)




--
Ron Greenman
Instructor
Fire Protection Engineering Technology
Bates Technical College
1101 So. Yakima Ave.
Tacoma, WA 98405

rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu

http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/

253.680.7346
253.576.9700 (cell)

Member:
ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC

They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon,
essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626)
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