Concede on the language of NFPA 13, on the system side of the
system control, check and alarm valves. Then send him a cut sheet on an alarm
valve. And point out you are on the system side of all those things that exist.
Some of them don't, like an alarm valve.
Then stop calling it a manifold. You can't have a manifold on a single riser
system. So concede a manifold is an alarm valve (which is his mistake). Then
argue you don't have a manifold either.
And if he doesn't like that what he/you are calling a manifold I assume is a
system riser by definition in 3.5.12 ('13) and those by definition do not
include a check valve. And a system riser is not included in the requirements
for a FDC location. You can have the FDC on either side of a system riser
(with the exception of the control valve of course).
Call NFPA/have him call NFPA. Anything in the handbook that has a picture?
Chris Cahill, PE*
Senior Fire Protection Engineer, Aviation & Facilities Group
Burns & McDonnell
8201 Norman Center Drive
Bloomington, MN 55437
Phone: 952.656.3652
Fax: 952.229.2923
ccah...@burnsmcd.com
www.burnsmcd.com
Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For
*Registered in: MN
-----Original Message-----
From: sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org
[mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Todd Williams
Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:57 PM
To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
Subject: RE: FDC location with riser manifold
That has basically been my argument. However, how do I convince him that a
riser manifold is not an alarm valve?
At 12:59 PM 12/28/2012, you wrote:
>2013 edition
>8.16.1.1.3.2 A listed backflow prevention device shall be considered a
>check valve, and an additional check valve shall not be required.
>
>Your FDC is on the system side of the backflow/check valve.
>
>Duane Johnson, PE
>Program Manager
>Division of the Fire Marshal (Contractor) Office of Research Services
>National Institutes of Health
>301-496-0487
>
>"Protecting Science - One Sprinkler at a Time"
>
>
>-----Original Message-----
>From: Todd Williams [mailto:t...@fpdc.com]
>Sent: Friday, December 28, 2012 12:32 PM
>To: sprinklerforum@firesprinkler.org
>Subject: FDC location with riser manifold
>
>I had an AHJ come back with a comment regarding a location of an FDC on
>a system I designed. The system has a single riser. The water main
>comes into the building approximately 1'-6" AFF. An elbow is installed
>and the backflow preventer is running horizontally parallel to the
>outside wall. The main turns vertical after the BFP and rises up at a
>riser manifold (not check) and on to the system. After the BFP, I
>called for a Tee with one outlet looking up and the other horizontal to
>the check and FDC. For design reasons, this has a significant
>advantage. The AHJ's contention is that the BFP needs to be taken off
>above the manifold because "that is what is says in NFPA 13". Section
>8.16.2.4.2 (1) states it shall be installed "on the system side of the
>system control, check and alarm valves." His contention is that it says
>a riser manifold is an alarm valve, which requires the FDC to be taken
>off above. My contention is that since it is not a check valve, then it
>doesn't make a d
i
> fference if it is above or below. The AHJ is an NFPA 13 fundamentalist and
> if it is not in there, it isn't the truth. Thoughts?
>
>Todd G. Williams, PE
>Fire Protection Design/Consulting
>Stonington, CT
>860.535.2080
>www.fpdc.com
>
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Todd G. Williams, PE
Fire Protection Design/Consulting
Stonington, CT
860.535.2080
www.fpdc.com
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