Sounds like a great discussion to have been had by the A/E on the job, not the sprinkler contactor awarded the job after bidding (unless this is a design-build retrofit situation).
Mark A. Sornsin, P.E. | Karges-Faulconbridge, Inc. | Fire Protection Engineer | Fargo, ND | direct: 701.552.9905 | mobile: 701.371.5759 | http://www.kfiengineers.com -----Original Message----- From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of Ron Greenman Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:54 AM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Fire Pump with storage tank How is fire flow being handled? For a school I doubt if tankers would be OK with the FD. And if it isn't a well why would you need a tank? On Tue, Sep 3, 2013 at 9:26 AM, Jeremy Frazier <jfraz...@cavalierfire.com>wrote: > This is for a 2 story school. It doesn't have standpipes or hose stations. > The tank is only feeding the fire pump and the sprinkler system. I'm > not 100% sure what is supplying the tank at the moment, but I believe > it is either a well or something of that nature. > > Jeremy Frazier > Designer > Cavalier Fire Protection > P:571-931-1004 > F:571-931-1010 > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:03 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: RE: Fire Pump with storage tank > > Yes, hydrants fed from the pump/tank is one unanswered question in > this equation. > > We need details in order to provide guidance. > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > Fire Protection > CH2MHILL > Lockwood Greene > 1500 International Drive > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > Direct - 864.599.4102 > Fax - 864.599.8439 > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > Todd > - > Work > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 11:00 AM > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > Subject: Re: Fire Pump with storage tank > > Unless otherwise specified, a tank is sized based on the maximum > sprinkler demand, plus any hose streams fed from the pump (inside hose > stations, standpipes, fire hydrants, etc), times the duration. And > that is useable water. If no hose flow is taken off the pump, it does > not have to be included in pump sizing. I would not think fire flow > would matter unless hydrants are fed by the pump. > > Todd G Williams, PE > Fire Protection Design/Consulting > Stonington, CT > www.fpdc.com > > On Sep 3, 2013, at 10:51 AM, Steven Scandaliato > <scandali...@outlook.com> > wrote: > > > Chris, I'm curious, is that in the March 2013 edition of the UFC? > > Where is that coming from? > > > > Steven Scandaliato, SET CFPS > > 520.971.2322 Cell > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > > Cahill, Christopher > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 8:47 AM > > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: Fire Pump with storage tank > > > > The 150% part of the question makes me wonder if this is military. > > If so since Feb. 2013 you do size for 150% of the pump (or demand x > > time whichever is higher which is always the 150% of the pump, > > seeing as how you can't go past 140% of a pump for design, well > > unless you want to put in a lot of small pumps.) > > > > Chris Cahill, PE* > > Senior Fire Protection Engineer > > Burns & McDonnell > > 8201 Norman Center Drive > > Bloomington, MN 55437 > > Phone: 952.656.3652 > > Fax: 952.229.2923 > > ccah...@burnsmcd.com > > www.burnsmcd.com > > > > Proud to be one of FORTUNE's 100 Best Companies to Work For > > *Registered > in: > > MN > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 9:42 AM > > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > Subject: RE: Fire Pump with storage tank > > > > Don't forget about Fire Flow as referenced in the IFC section 507. > > You'll need to call the local responding fire department and ask > > what method they have approved for determining fire flow. > > > > This is a value related to flow (gpm) and duration (hours) for > > manual fire fighting. It is very often overlooked by fire > > protection designers because it's not in NFPA 13. > > > > This value can have significant impact on your tank and pump selection. > > > > Craig L. Prahl, CET > > Fire Protection > > CH2MHILL > > Lockwood Greene > > 1500 International Drive > > Spartanburg, SC 29304-0491 > > Direct - 864.599.4102 > > Fax - 864.599.8439 > > CH2MHILL Extension 74102 > > craig.pr...@ch2m.com > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org > > [mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org] On Behalf Of > > Jeremy Frazier > > Sent: Tuesday, September 03, 2013 10:19 AM > > To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > Subject: Fire Pump with storage tank > > > > When you size a tank, do you size it for 150% of the fire pump > > demand or just the sprinkler demand? Would you also need to include > > the hose stream if there is no inside hose stations? This is the > > first time I'm doing one of these, and I would hate to get this wrong. > > > > > > > > > > > > Jeremy Frazier > > Designer > > > > Cavalier Fire Protection > > > > P:571-931-1004 > > > > F:571-931-1010 > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl er.org _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl > > er.org > > > > _______________________________________________ > > Sprinklerforum mailing list > > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin > > kl > > er.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > > ______________________________________________________________________ > This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. > For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com > ______________________________________________________________________ > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org > -- Ron Greenman Instructor Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College 1101 So. Yakima Ave. Tacoma, WA 98405 rgreen...@bates.ctc.edu http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ 253.680.7346 253.576.9700 (cell) Member: ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org ______________________________________________________________________ This email has been scanned by the Symantec Email Security.cloud service. For more information please visit http://www.symanteccloud.com ______________________________________________________________________ _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
