I guess technically, no. When the Architect calls them ceiling clouds in a meeting. My response: "Oh you mean the sprinkler obstructions"
David Autry Meininger Fire Protection Inc. 2521 W L St. Suite No.4 Lincoln, Ne 68522 Voice (402) 466-2616 Fax (402) 466-2617 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 9:24 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Interstitial Space Sprinklers, segue to definitions If a sprinkler is installed in the obstruction (ceiling cloud) to protect beneath is it still an obstruction? Ron F -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of David Autry Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 8:20 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Interstitial Space Sprinklers, segue to definitions Ceiling clouds: I don't refer to them as Ceiling Clouds any more. I call them sprinkler obstructions. Sprinklers: The term "head" is not found anywhere in 13, only in 20 (I believe). David Autry Meininger Fire Protection Inc. 2521 W L St. Suite No.4 Lincoln, Ne 68522 Voice (402) 466-2616 Fax (402) 466-2617 [email protected] -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 8:47 AM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Interstitial Space Sprinklers, segue to definitions So no more referring to "calc's", it shall be called the "Hydraulically Calculated Water Demand Flow Rate". We won't "flush the underground pipe" we will perform a "flushing test" on the underground? Why not call it a "debris test" but then I guess we would fail the test if there was no debris. And I'm still trying to figure out to how pump "supplemental water" into a FDC (hehe). In 1970 I was told it was called a "sprinkler head" so I will keep using that term. Let's start a movement to eliminate the use of metaphors in fire protection. Happy Friday, Ron F -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Friday, February 28, 2014 6:09 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Interstitial Space Sprinklers Thank you Steve. While I sometime disagree with your perspective, on this we both agree, and wholeheartedly! I am regularly irritated by our industry generated "slang" vernacular. "Heads", "sprigs", "drops", "shotgun risers", and "FDC Connections" to name a few, should be systematically expunged from our vocabulary, and I will lay down this challenge to the Professionals, Tradesmen, Scholars, Authorities, and all other participants of this Forum to do this. Mark at Aero ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Leyton [mailto:[email protected]] Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 11:43 PM To: [email protected] <[email protected]> Subject: RE: Interstitial Space Sprinklers Memo To: Everyone in our industry who is alive and being held to the Earth's surface by gravity (as personified by Brad) In Re To: "head makers" In reference to the appliances that discharge water in fire suppression systems, let it be known that there is no such thing as a "head" or "head maker" or "sprinkler head" in any context, except when referring to or describing pressure, both positive and negative. The term "sprinkler head" - which is and has been used for the entirety of recorded history as we know it - is not a defined term. As such, there is no such thing as a "sprinkler head" and therefore, no such entity or group of stake-holders as "head makers", lest you be referring to fire pumps, plural/inclusive. We've all done it, said it, used it, myself included but there is no such thing as a sprinkler head. Let's all start referring to them as "sprinklers" or "fire sprinklers" ... SML -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] on behalf of Brad Casterline Sent: Thu 2/27/2014 8:13 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Interstitial Space Sprinklers Since it will come down to leaving the uprights alone or replacing them with a plug, and the latest technological thinking of the head makers is that they should never be re-installed anywhere if they have been tampered with, I would leave them, and CALL them plugs ;) > On Feb 27, 2014, at 9:43 PM, Brad Casterline <[email protected]> wrote: > > An instance of AHJ "taste"? > >> On Feb 27, 2014, at 8:57 PM, Brad Casterline >> <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> I will take the contrarian side and say although you all are correct >> I think it applies to under-designed and in this case if the above compliment was left it would be over-designed. >> >>> On Feb 27, 2014, at 8:41 PM, "rongreenman ." <[email protected]> wrote: >>> >>> Richard hit it with, "Any device that has the physical appearance of >>> life safety or fire protection equipment...." This is the key. >>> Unused stuff that isn't life safety in appearance need not be >>> removed if non-functional, but if life safety it has to come out or, >>> as Todd said, needs to be in full compliance, whether required or >>> not. So if it's life safety stuff and not required it can stay or go >>> as long as it works properly, but if out of compliance it must be >>> right or it must go. >>> >>> >>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 1:56 PM, Todd Williams <[email protected]> wrote: >>>> >>>> Then you would have to make it right or take it out. If a system is >>>> installed, it has to be per code, whether it is required or not >>>> >>>> Todd G Williams, PE >>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>>> Stonington, CT >>>> 860-535-2080 >>>> www.fpdc.com >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Feb 27, 2014, at 4:46 PM, Steven Cook <[email protected]> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Depending on placement of the full height walls, it is possible >>>>> some of >>>> these existing heads could now be positioned as exceeding the >>>> maximum distance from walls..... >>>>> >>>>> Steve >>>>> >>>>> -----Original Message----- >>>>> From: [email protected] [mailto: >>>> [email protected]] On Behalf Of Todd - >>>> Work >>>>> Sent: Thursday, February 27, 2014 4:44 PM >>>>> To: [email protected] >>>>> Subject: Re: Interstitial Space Sprinklers >>>>> >>>>> However, if the upright sprinklers are still connected and >>>>> operational, >>>> why wold they need to be taken out? If some of the existing heads >>>> are removed and the outlets used as drops (without installing new >>>> uprights), then all of the uprights in that area should be removed. >>>>> >>>>> Todd G Williams, PE >>>>> Fire Protection Design/Consulting >>>>> Stonington, CT >>>>> www.fpdc.com >>>>> 860-535-2080 (ofc) >>>>> >>>>>> On Feb 27, 2014, at 4:35 PM, Richard Lindner >>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Based on prior discussions here, this is a cited reference (IFC >>>>>> 2012 >>>>>> 901.4.5) if applicable. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Any device that has the physical appearance of life safety or >>>>>> fire protection equipment but that does not perform that life >>>>>> safety or fire protection function shall be prohibited" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Thu, Feb 27, 2014 at 4:23 PM, Steven Cook >>>>>>> <[email protected]> >>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> We have a fit-out project of an existing core / shell condition >>>> building. >>>>>>> Beam and girder construction, all noncombustible. Existing >>>>>>> sprinkler coverage is average 10 x 12 spacing for the open space. >>>>>>> Accounting for beam and other MEP obstructions as required, etc. >>>>>>> The contract drawings are depicting new branch line piping >>>>>>> supplying the >>>> sprinklers at the ACT >>>>>>> ceilings. Deck at 15 feet, new ceilings range from 8'6" to 10 feet. >>>> They >>>>>>> currently depict the existing upright heads to remain. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I believe the existing heads are 165 F, but need to verify. >>>>>>> It's the ground floor of a multi-story building (so not at an >>>>>>> un-insulated >>>> roof). >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Although the heads are not required, is there a requirement to >>>>>>> remove >>>> the >>>>>>> existing upright heads? I thought there was, but didn't locate it. >>>>>>> Pushing to remove them, but want to have back-up when told to "prove" >>>>>>> they need to come out. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Thanks >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Steve Cook >>>>>>> TG Gallagher >>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>>> >>>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-fires >>>>>>> prink >>>>>>> ler.org >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>>> [email protected] >>>>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesp >>>>>> rinkl >>>>>> er.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>> nkler.org >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>>> [email protected] >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>> nkler.org _______________________________________________ >>>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>>> [email protected] >>>> >>>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firespri >>>> nkler.org >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> Ron Greenman >>> Instructor >>> Fire Protection Engineering Technology Bates Technical College >>> 1101 So. Yakima Ave. >>> Tacoma, WA 98405 >>> >>> [email protected] >>> >>> http://www.bates.ctc.edu/fireprotection/ >>> >>> 253.680.7346 >>> 253.576.9700 (cell) >>> >>> Member: >>> ASEE, SFPE, ASCET, NFPA, AFSA, NFSA, AFAA, NIBS, WSAFM, WFC, WFSC >>> >>> They are happy men whose natures sort with their vocations. -Francis >>> Bacon, essayist, philosopher, and statesman (1561-1626) >>> >>> A problem well stated is a problem half solved. -Charles F. >>> Kettering, inventor and engineer (1876-1958) >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Sprinklerforum mailing list >>> [email protected] >>> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprin >>> kler.org >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> ler.org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.o rg _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
