I'm up for a learning experience... As I only have the 2015 IBC in front of me, wouldn't the Incidental Use Table 509 push you into whether or not the room needs to be protected by a higher classification?
"Incidental uses are ancillary functions associated with a given occupancy that generally pose a greater level of risk to that occupancy and are limited to those uses listed in Table 509" A lot of these push you into a rating OR automatic sprinkler system, so I guess the answer would be "It depends"....but in any case it seems that you would need to have the room capable of resisting the passage of smoke by full height walls, smoke dampers, and self-closing doors, etc. Any AHJ's out there see these rooms not being maintained in this fashion which is why the higher hazard protection is being "required"? ...and after a couple classes last week by Mr. Isman and Mr. Bilbo, my eyes are a bit more open to things not specifically spelled out in our standards (omni-directional hot air plumes comes to mind =-)... Dan -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 7:37 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser I'll agree with you on that, but who will answer my first question? Any bold takers? Mark at Aero 602 820-7894 Sent from my iPhone > On May 6, 2015, at 5:14 PM, "Steve Leyton" <[email protected]> wrote: > > I'm very forward thinking ... > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 5:06 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser > > This response,(not yours Steve) requires me to ask another question, > which likely should be on a separate thread, but here goes. Is it the > charter of the NFPA 13 committee to write or amend the language of the > standard for what the AHJ will approve? Or rather is it the > responsibility of the NFPA 13 committee to write or amend the language > of the standard for the AHJ to ENFORCE. I think I may be really > confused! > > But for your response Steve, I'm not sure what you mean by "I told you > so", because what you told me was " but I'm pretty sure that utility > and/or mechanical rooms, service areas, etc. are classified in Chap 5 > (annex) as OH1.", which is not true, at least until next year. :-) > > Mark at Aero > 602 820-7894 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Steve Leyton > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 2:15 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser > > Good info Tom - thanks. > > Mark Phelps - I TOLD YOU SO. > > (winkie face) > > SML > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of > Tom Wellen > Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 11:25 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser > > The next edition, 2016 will address mechanical rooms in the annex. > > I submitted PI No. 514 to address mechanical rooms: > > Public Input No. 514-NFPA 13-2013 [ Section No. A.5.3.1 ] > A.5.3.1 > Ordinary hazard (Group 1) occupancies include occupancies having uses > and conditions similar to the following: > (1) Automobile parking and showrooms > (2) Bakeries > (3) Beverage manufacturing > (4) Canneries > (5) Dairy products manufacturing and processing > (6) Electronic plants > (7) Glass and glass products manufacturing > (8) Laundries > (9) Restaurant service areas > (10) Mechanical rooms with stockpiles up to 8 ft > > Statement of Problem and Substantiation for Public Input A new > mechanical room by definition is a light hazard occupancy. The room is > empty and the equipment is generally noncombustible. The AHJ likely > will not buy off that the room will not be used for storage. > > I also submitted Public Input No. 515-NFPA 13-2013 [ Section No. > A.5.3.2 ] that was rejected: > A.5.3.2 > Ordinary hazard (Group 2) occupancies include occupancies having uses > and conditions similar to the following: > ...... > (31) Mechanical rooms with stockpiles up to 12 ft > > Committee Statement > Resolution: The definition of OH2 will drive the user to this > occupancy hazard classification. This language is superfluous. > > > Tom Wellen > > >> On May 6, 2015, at 12:39 PM, Tim Stone <[email protected]> wrote: >> >> John, >> Answers to >> #1 YES. >> #2 NFPA 13 Chapter 5, current edition. >> #3 Of course you can, there is no restriction. >> >> Regards, >> G. Tim Stone >> >> G. Tim Stone Consulting, LLC >> NICET Level III Engineering Technician Fire Protection Sprinkler >> Design and Consulting Services >> >> 117 Old Stage Rd. - Essex Jct., VT. 05452 >> CELL: (802) 373-0638 TEL: (802) 434-2968 Fax: (802) 434-4343 >> [email protected] >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of John Allen, CET, CFPS >> Sent: Wednesday, May 06, 2015 1:27 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser >> >> Okay, I'm really confused. In NFPA 13HB - 2013, I found the > following: >> >> FAQ: Can nonmetallic pipe be used in an ordinary hazard occupancy? >> Nonmetallic pipe is not permitted in ordinary hazard occupancies and >> is only permitted in specific small ordinary hazard rooms within >> light > >> hazard occupancies. The limitation to rooms that do not exceed 400 >> ft2 > >> (37 m2) recognizes that almost all buildings have typically small >> storage rooms or mechanical rooms that would be categorized as >> ordinary hazard. Requiring a change in pipe type for those rooms or >> requiring the entire system to use metallic pipe would be > overburdensome. >> >> Supplement 3: >> (8)* Sprinklers shall not be required to be installed within >> electrical equipment, mechanical equipment, or air handling units not >> intended for occupancy. >> A.8.1.1(8) Equipment having access for routine maintenance should not >> be considered as intended for occupancy. >> Clarifies that some electrical equipment is large enough to be >> accessed by man doors. In these instances, where this equipment is >> not > >> occupied but rather accessed for maintenance, sprinklers are not > required. >> >> So, my three questions now are: >> 1. do I need sprinklers in the mechanical room that is 750 sqf? >> 2. what code identifies the mechanical room as OH1? >> 3. if I do need sprinklers, can I design the OH1 area off the cross >> main that feeds the light hazard areas (using only one riser feed)? >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> John Allen, CET, CFPS >> President >> >> >> AFS: Allen Fire & Security >> Your Safety is Our Success >> Direct: 770.715.7261 | Office: 770.723.7280 Ext 2 | Fax: 678.894.4180 >> >> >> Please consider the environment before printing this email This >> email contains proprietary and confidential material for the sole use >> of the intended recipient and is the sole property of AFS. Any >> review, use, distribution or disclosure by others without the >> permission of the sender is strictly prohibited. If you are not the >> intended recipient (or authorized to receive for the recipient), >> please contact the sender by reply email and delete all copies of the > message. >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of [email protected] >> Sent: Wednesday, May 6, 2015 8:56 AM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser >> >> You are looking for permission? How long could the possible > scenarios in >> that list be? >> >> There is no restriction or prohibition of designing systems of >> different densities off one riser. It's common practice. Calculate >> and prove it works and you're done. >> >> Mechanical rooms contain rotating electrical equipment, some may >> contain natural gas or propane piping, or fuel oil, typically there's >> at least one or more boxes of filters since they go with the AC >> equipment, we will at some time probably have to consider the >> refrigerant being used on HVAC equipment as some of the "greener" >> gases have flammability properties. So HVAC mechanical rooms are not >> without hazards. OH 1 is typical for anything bigger than an > apartment closet mechanical room. >> >> Craig L. Prahl >> Fire Protection Group Lead >> CH2MHILL >> Lockwood Greene >> 1500 International Drive >> Spartanburg, SC 29303 >> Direct - 864.599.4102 >> Fax - 864.599.8439 >> CH2MHILL Extension 74102 >> [email protected] >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Brad Casterline >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 6:14 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser >> >> Apology accepted ;) >> >> a real head-scratcher--- i thought of a few things, looked them up, >> and by golly they were not codes that allows you to design that way >> (the way we all do all systems that is) >> >> i'm going home and let this bother me all night... thanks (i cant >> wait > >> til tomorrow morning when i check my mail) >> >> brad >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Jack Carlson >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 4:51 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: RE: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser >> >> John, >> >> You should not have an issue with the design as described. Light and >> ordinary are commonly mixed, no separate supply main is necessary. >> >> >> Jack W. Carlson, SET >> Triple "A" Fire Protection >> Office - 251.649.2034 >> Fax - 251.649.2037 >> Cell - 706.247.5050 >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Sprinklerforum >> [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of John Allen, CET, CFPS >> Sent: Tuesday, May 05, 2015 5:38 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Light & OH1 Hazard From Same Riser >> >> I apologize for such a simple question, but I would greatly >> appreciate > >> some >> guidance: >> >> I have a 22,000 sqf light hazard office space with a 750 sqf >> mechanical room that I've identified as ordinary hazard 1. The >> entire > >> ceiling space is an open 14' concrete beams and roof deck, and the >> mechanical room is separated by sheetrock and self-closing doors. >> The > >> riser is in the mechanical room and I have 7 upright sprinkler heads >> fed off the cross main pipe feeding the light hazard office space. >> What code allows me to design this way or must I create a separate > riser feed for each hazard? >> >> >> Best Regards, >> >> John Allen, CET, CFPS >> President >> >> >> AFS: Allen Fire & Security >> Your Safety is Our Success >> Direct: 770.715.7261 | Office: 770.723.7280 Ext 2 | Fax: 678.894.4180 >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l er.org _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l >> er.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l er.org _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l er.org _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l >> er.org >> >> _______________________________________________ >> Sprinklerforum mailing list >> [email protected] >> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprink >> l >> er.org > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er > .org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er > .org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er > .org > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkl > er.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
