>From the IBC (2012):
[F] 903.3.5 Water supplies.
Water supplies for automatic sprinkler systems shall comply with this section
and the standards referenced in Section
903.3.1.<javascript:Next('./icod_ibc_2012_9_par053.htm');> The potable water
supply shall be protected against backflow in accordance with the requirements
of this section and the International Plumbing Code.
Duane Johnson, PE
Design Manager
Strickland Fire Protection
4011 Penn Belt Place
Forestville, MD 20747
301-474-1136 Office
301-455-0010 Cell
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Bobby Dewar
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:10 PM
To: [email protected]
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
>From the Florida Plumbing Code:
608.16.4 Connections to automatic fire sprinkler systems and standpipe systems.
The potable water supply to automatic fire sprinkler and standpipe systems
shall be protected against backflow by a double check backflow prevention
assembly, a double check fire protection backflow prevention assembly or a
reduced pressure principle fire protection backflow prevention assembly.
Exceptions:
1. Where systems are installed as a portion of the water distribution system in
accordance with the requirements of this code and are not provided with a fire
department connection, isolation of the water supply system shall not be
required.
2. Isolation of the water distribution system is not required for deluge,
preaction or dry pipe systems.
Bobby Dewar, P.E.
Contract Design Manager
Wayne Automatic Fire Sprinklers, Inc.
222 Capitol Court
Ocoee, FL 34761
407-877-5578 - Office
407-656-8026 - Fax
407-721-3762 - Cell
[Description: Description: Description:
cid:[email protected]]
www.waynefire.com<http://www.waynefire.com/>
We're hiring great people at all of our locations! Please check out our
website for the details!
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 12:01 PM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
This answer I like. Time to dig in to AWWA.
Thanks
John Irwin
Critical System Solutions Sprinkler Construction Manager
813-618-2781<tel:813-618-2781>
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent from a mobile device. Please forgive brevity, spelling errors and
punctuation gaffes.
-------- Original message --------
From: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Date: 06/23/2016 11:57 AM (GMT-05:00)
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
The AWWA has requirements for Backflow Prevention and Cross Connection
mitigation which are followed by the water purveyors.
It sounds like you have a deficiency and coordination issue in the plans you
were given.
I would be drafting an RFI to the GC asking them to contact the EOR for
clarification on the design.
You cannot leave the potable unprotected by not having a backflow on the
sprinkler connection to the potable.
Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
CH2M
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:47 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
Yes I understand what I should do, but it's not my place to go around the
general contractor, engineer, owner and architect. Only to advise. We have an
approved site plan and I have an approved sprinkler shop drawing. If viewed at
the same time the issue becomes apparent. When viewed and permitted separately
by different entities inside the AHJ office, the trouble is less visible.
Asking about it would most likely trigger the requirement. And while I think we
should have a backflow, without a code or ordinance to back me up ... there
isn't much I can do.
John Irwin
Sprinkler Construction Manager
Critical System Solutions, LLC
Cell: 813.618.2781
Email:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:41 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
Fire Sprinkler systems are served off of domestic potable water lines all over
the place. Very common.
Your requirement to protect the potable water is coming from the local water
purveyor or health department not from NFPA 13. This protection of the potable
system has been around for decades.
You should be contacting the local water department to find out what type of
backflow device they require and get direction from them. That's your first
stop in this matter.
Craig L. Prahl
Fire Protection Group Lead/SME
CH2M
200 Verdae Blvd.
Greenville, SC 29607
Direct - 864.920.7540
Fax - 864.920.7129
CH2MHILL Extension 77540
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:16 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
I use RPZ as a generic term.
Also I am going under the assumption that I MUST separate my sprinkler from the
domestic at the point of connection. However it was brought to my attention
that this may not be required in NFPA anyway. While the thought of sprinkler
water and domestic water sickens me a bit ... can someone show me where NFPA
says I must separate them with a backflow?
John Irwin
Sprinkler Construction Manager
Critical System Solutions, LLC
Cell: 813.618.2781
Email:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of Steve Leyton
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 11:07 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: RE: Two Backflows
I don't think there's any prohibition and we've been asked to do this before.
I would check with serving water and fire departments to be sure that both
devices satisfy the requirement of their respective masters. RPZ's are not UL
classified for fire service and usually configured with non-indicating valves
for general water service. NFPA standards require ALL valves controlling fire
protection water supplies to be LISTED (for fire service) indicating type and
building code requires them to be supervised. Have fun ...
Steve
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On
Behalf Of John Irwin
Sent: Thursday, June 23, 2016 8:03 AM
To:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
Subject: Two Backflows
I am working on a project where the developer and site contractor have decided
that fire and domestic should share an underground line around the site and to
the building. At the street there is a meter assembly and a Wilkins 375A RPZ. I
would need to install an additional backflow at my point of connection because
the line is shared all the way to the water room. Other than being a dumb way
to do this and having two pressure losses in my calculations, is there any code
that says I can't gave two RPZs in my water line?
John Irwin
Sprinkler Construction Manager
Critical System Solutions, LLC
2830 Scherer Drive, Suite 300
St. Petersburg, FL 33716
Office: 727.209.5122
Fax: 727.209.5126
Cell: 813.618.2781
Email:
[email protected]<mailto:[email protected]>
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