Steve- Great info, thanks. Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/>
From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Steve Leyton Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 4:34 PM To: [email protected] Subject: RE: Apartment Crawl Space Duane: Having taught NFPA sprinkler seminars for 8 or 9 years and having served on the AUTRSS for 5 cycles, I am reasonably certain that this isn't accurate. NFPA 13R has had various explanations in A.1.1 over the years, but the current one states, "NFPA 13R is appropriate for use as an alternative to NFPA 13 only in those residential occupancies as defined in this standard up to and including four aboveground stories in height, and limited to buildings that are 60 ft (18 m) or less in height above grade plane, which is consistent with limits established by model building codes for buildings of Type V construction..." It goes on to address multiple separated occupancies, accessory uses and other potential restrictions. The intent is that 13 and 13R can be used in the same structure when they are separated to the satisfaction of the applicable code as approved by the building official and/or fire official. The most obvious application would be a podium where the upper-most deck creates a (3-hour) horizontal separation, on top of which you can building a Type V building that will be no taller than 60 ft. above grade plane. That could be a two- or three- or four-story building, depending on the height of the podium. The use of 13R is only applicable in "buildings" up to four-stories tall, so you cannot apply 13 to a fifth floor under any circumstances; it has to be 13 all the way. But you can use 13 in the "lower" building and 13R in a conforming "upper" building when you have a horizontal separation as defined by your code, so long as the residential part is four stories or less. Unless you're in CA, in which case our amendments to Chapter 5 make it mandatory to use 13 in any four-story Type 5, or in a three-story Type 5B. The preceding is my opinion only, Steve Leyton From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fox, Duane T. (FireMarshal) Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 1:17 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Apartment Crawl Space Brian, NFPA and NFA seminars. The definition of 13R is for up to and including four floors. It doesn't prohibit the building from having more floors just like if the first floor was mercantile or business (like a hotel). You would design the first floor, fifth floor, and attic as NFPA 13, with the second-fourth per NFPA 13R. As Art stated it probably makes more sense to design all 13 using the dwelling unit sections. The attic will probably be the most demanding (and dry) so your design criteria would be 2535 @ 0.10 (assuming pitch). Once you go over four stories you end up losing the exception of attic sprinklers. Duane From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 2:55 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: RE: Apartment Crawl Space Duane- That's an interesting thought. What section in 13 ? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. bvssytemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Fox, Duane T. (FireMarshal) Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 2:52 PM To: '[email protected]' Subject: RE: Apartment Crawl Space According to NFPA you can do a 13-R for the first four floors and a 13 system on the 5th floor and attic. I think you need to look at the IBC/IRC to see if there are building code requirements in the crawl space (assuming a normal crawl space). Duane T. Fox, Jr., CFPS, CFI, CFPE Asst Chief, Technical Services DE State Fire Marshal's Office 302-856-5298 From: Sprinklerforum [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Brian Harris Sent: Thursday, January 11, 2018 2:30 PM To: [email protected]<mailto:[email protected]> Subject: Apartment Crawl Space Looking at a (5) story apartment building so I assume it would need to be per NFPA-13 correct? With that being said is there anything in the Standard that addresses the crawl space underneath? Concealed Space? Brian Harris, CET BVS Systems Inc. Design Manager bvssystemsinc.com<http://bvssystemsinc.com/> Phone: 704.896.9989 Fax: 704.896.1935
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