The issue is actually the temperature of the sprinklers. Much of the equipment is in place making it difficult to access the sprinklers. Plus I don’t necessarily agree that they need to be changed because I don’t believe this is the same as a LH occupancy.
I hate to see money pissed away because an AHJ doesn’t know what he’s talking about. In this case, the AHJ is pretty knowledgeable and reasonable. So if I can justify our opinion I think he would concede. John Irwin From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Joe Burtell Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 5:02 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Subject: Re: Indoor Trampoline Park There is nothing that says you cannot overdesign a system. Case in point is ESFR sprinkler systems. We install them in lease warehouses all the time even though the current tenant may only be storing class 1 product to 12'-0. Is it overkill, yes, but it gives them flexibility for future tenants. Same is true in your case. What about the next tenant, maybe OH 2 is more appropriate for the next guy. So we should replace systems like we change underwear, well maybe for some of us. I may question the temperature of the sprinklers but beyond that, just calc it with a boatload of safety if that's what he wants. Best regards, Joe Burtell, SET, CFPS *PLEASE NOTE NEW PHONE NUMBER* [Burtell Fire_Small] Phone | Fax | Mobile| Text 406-204-4653<tel:++1-406-204-4653> 116 N. 11th Street | Billings, MT 59101 Email: j...@burtellfire.com<mailto:j...@burtellfire.com> Web Site: http://www.burtellfire.com<http://www.burtellfire.com/> “The bitterness of poor quality remains long after the sweetness of low price is forgotten.” NOTICE: The information contained in this e-mail transmission is intended only for use of the individual or entity named above. This e-mail transmission, and any documents, files, previous e-mail transmissions or other information attached to it, may contain confidential information that is legally privileged. If you are not the intended recipient of this e-mail transmission, or the employee or agent responsible for delivering it to the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any disclosure, dissemination, distribution, copying or other use of this transmission or any of the information contained in or attached to this e-mail is strictly prohibited. If you have received this e-mail transmission in error, please immediately notify us by return e-mail transmission and destroy the original e-mail transmission as well as its attachments without reading or saving it in any manner. Thank you. On Thu, Jan 3, 2019 at 2:52 PM John Irwin <jir...@quickresponsefl.com<mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com>> wrote: Exposed roof at about 25ft. 286 sprinklers are existing. We have no information on the padding used for the park. John Irwin West Coast Branch Manager Quick Response Fire Protection 727-282-9243 Typed on tiny keys, just for you. Please forgive spelling errors, typographical transgressions and grammatical gaffs. ________________________________ From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> on behalf of Prahl, Craig/GVL <craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com>> Sent: Thursday, January 3, 2019 4:48:09 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: RE: Indoor Trampoline Park Is there a ceiling or exposed construction overhead? What is the ceiling/roof height? Do any of the foam, vinyl, foam rubber, plastics, etc. have any special ratings making them non-combustible or self-extinguishing? Smoke and Flame spread ratings matter with respect to occupant evacuation. Is there space below the trampolines? What is being done there to prevent debris accumulation? How would a fire be addressed below the trampoline? No, you as the sprinkler contractor have nothing to do with the fire alarm system and how it functions. Remember, as the AHJ, they typically cover a multitude of Life Safety Systems so they will often address those which are tied together. Unless the building is unventilated, why 286 deg. heads? 200 deg. would be fine if you have a high ceiling and possibility of heat stratification, but that’s usually not an issue in a sprinklered building. If the building is air conditioned, 155 deg. Sprinklers could be used. Chances are that a lower temp sprinkler would activate quicker, control the spread faster and minimize the number of sprinklers activated overall. In a place like this “water damage” would be of what concern as opposed to heat melting their props. If the sprinkler system proves inadequate there will be plenty of water coming in the building via hose lines. Smoke detection in this environment for evacuation and notification might be advantageous for early warning of a potential fire situation. With plastics you can have smoldering before flame and heat suitable for sprinkler activation. Depending on the size and number of trampolines, I would be very cautious considering this type of facility light hazard regardless of being an assembly occupancy. Craig Prahl | Jacobs | Group Lead – Fire Protection | 864.676.5252 | craig.pr...@jacobs.com<mailto:craig.pr...@jacobs.com> | www.jacobs.com<http://www.jacobs.com/> From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org>> On Behalf Of John Irwin Sent: Thursday, January 03, 2019 4:29 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Indoor Trampoline Park Some versions of this discussion have come up over the past weeks. We’re having a bit of an issue with an AHJ in converting a Sports Authority to in indoor park. Originally we submitted as Light Hazard because it’s an assembly occupancy. I didn’t necessarily agree with this but … anyway … The AHJ then wanted all sprinklers changed because they are 286° sprinklers and thus, not permitted in LH. So I spoke to said AHJ and told him I really felt this should be at least an OH occupancy anyway, because of the miscellaneous foam padding and plastics. He agreed (of course verbally and not in writing). We made those changes and a couple more he asked for and thought we were good to go. Today, we received this notice: Mr. Irwin, Just a follow up to our phone call earlier. Thank you for speaking with me earlier. The existing Fire Sprinkler System was designed and engineered to protect a specific hazard for the previous occupancy. There has been concerns about the potential need for reengineering since the beginning of this project. Sprinkler Systems in Assemblies are intended for life safety and are designed as light hazard occupancies with fast activation per NFPA 13. The proposed Fire Alarm System does not include smoke protection and will be primarily activated by the Sprinkler System. The proposed plans are for ordinary group II hazard with high temperature, standard response sprinklers. A delay in activation of the Fire Sprinkler and Fire Alarm Systems, may result in an adverse effect on life safety. This delay may increase the amount of fire damage. Additionally this delay and the proposed 8K sprinklers may increase the amount of water damage. Please provide a signed and sealed letter from the Engineer of Record documenting the effects the proposed fire protection systems will have on occupant notification, occupant evacuation, life safety, and property conservation. Options: * The Engineer’s letter adequately documents that life safety will not be adversely effected. * The Engineer’s letter indicates a change in hazard classification and sprinklers. * The Engineer’s letter indicates the addition of full smoke protection to the fire alarm system. Please be advised that Engineer’s letter along with the most recent revision will be will be sent out for a third party review by a Fire Protection Engineer. Thank you, I’d especially like to know what Matt and Pete think about this. The question is, is it always ok to over protect an occupancy? Assuming this is a LH assembly (which I don’t agree it is) can I protect per OH if I want to? As a sprinkler contractor, do I have to take alarm activation in to consideration at all? How would you proceed with this? John Irwin Quick Response Fire Protection jir...@quickresponsefl.com<mailto:jir...@quickresponsefl.com> CELL – 727-282-9243 ________________________________ NOTICE - This communication may contain confidential and privileged information that is for the sole use of the intended recipient. Any viewing, copying or distribution of, or reliance on this message by unintended recipients is strictly prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us immediately by replying to the message and deleting it from your computer. _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org<mailto:Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
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