On Tue, Jul 27, 2021 at 8:02 AM Matt Grise via Sprinklerforum < [email protected]> wrote:
> If you are exceeding 877gpm, the building is probably already gone - or > some burst pipe is taking up all of the water anyway. At that point, > torching your diesel motor is probably going to be a lesser concern. Best > case scenario is that someone drove their car into a standpipe, and a > busted 4" is draining the pipes down. Someone would probably find out about > that quickly enough to shut off the motor (hopefully!) > > I am personally not a huge fan of suction control valves. That is just one > more item that has the ability to shut off sprinkler flow to two entire > apartment buildings. Unless the water company is worried about city-wide > damage the water system, it seems like the greatest hazard/cost would be > the buildings and the people in them. I would lean toward a more simple > system. > > Matt > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Tom Duross via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:45 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Tom Duross <[email protected]> > Subject: RE: FP Suction Control Valve > > I should have rambled a little more.. > 750 gpm pump runs down to 20 PSI at 877 gpm (117%). Worried should water > demand exceed that and cavitate the main and loose cooling water to the > engine. Then we loose the pump house and the buildings. Residential areas > are compartmentized so not as much worried about 2-4 heads going off but > concerned about parking garages, standpipes and hydrants. Told local FD > Capt. We would augment and ring hydrants per 291 and also placard stairways > but wanted a fail safe to protect pump for down the road. FD is onboard > including their outside PE. > TD > > > Why are you wanting to install the suction control valve? Was it requested > by the FD or water supplier? > > I would be concerned about removing the PRV without knowing all about what > is downstream. It would be just your luck that some contractor got a > variance to build the mains out of pool-noodles that burst at 110psi... > > Matt > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Sprinklerforum <[email protected]> On > Behalf Of Tom Duross via Sprinklerforum > Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2021 6:28 AM > To: [email protected] > Cc: Tom Duross <[email protected]> > Subject: FP Suction Control Valve > > Good morning Campers. Looking for advice and comments. > > I have an existing diesel driven fire pump in a prefabricated pump house > installed in 2012 serving 2 apartment buildings. > > I first tested this pump in 2017, had 13 hours on it, ran fine but we ran > out of water at just about 100% capacity. > > Spent the day with the water department a few days later checking > underground valves, flowing a few street main's hydrants, basically came to > the conclusion that this is all we got. Wrote up a report, suggested they > hire an FPE to see if the pump's tested capacity meets requirements, how > did this happen, what about the hydrants off this system, stuff like that. > I think I stirred the sleepy caldron a little. > > Didn't hear back from the client until this spring. Apparently they > changed ITM contractors and the new one didn't pan out. They had a balcony > fire May 2021, gas grille, 13R system with no attic protection, > non-completed attic separations and fire walls, etc. Fortunately they had > a response so quickly it never made it to penetrate the eaves and soffits > and was extinguished between the 5th and 6th (top) floors. Local FD must > have had a field day with a Q20 of about 800 and closest city hydrant ¼ > mile away. Waiting for incident report to review. > > > > So back to my query. It's a xy&em pump house. All welded sch40 and > painted. Not the greatest build as there's a 6" BFP vertically installed > right off the incoming service with elbows turning it around and down to > the floor to feed the pump. Just a few spacers in the piping so no room > for slipping in this device unless something gets removed or moved. 4-15 > of #20 > (2013) says between the pump discharge and check and I get that but also > defers to the mfgr. for direction. Looking at the various offerings most > are a little vague on placement and even one says after the pump discharge > valve. Without major surgery, I have 2 spots to slip in this 20" long > device. I can remove the relief valve between the discharge increaser and > pump check and put it there 'or' I can remove the tee feeding a 6" storz > and check located between the discharge valve and the city bypass. The > former will allow me to test through the device but the latter will not. I > don't believe either of these appurtenances are necessary and I will > explain (he's still rambling? Jeepers..). The engine is a small JD inline > 4 running 3000 rpm, single ECM, max. speed is 3300. Churn is 155 at 3025. > I haven't physically done it but if I extrapolate to 3300 I get 170 psi. > I'm below > 175 so I think the PRV can go. If I opt to remove the storz I can but > testing this pump will have to be via the 3 hydrants it serves, in addition > to the 2 buildings. I honestly don't know why the engineer (small E) had a > storz included as this house it atop a hill in the woods ½ mile away from a > city hydrant and these buildings. > > > > OK, done rambling. Loose the PRV or keep scratching my head? > > > > Let's go Red Sox! > > > > Tom Duross > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2 > > flistinfo.cgi%2fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,mmPokZ5kJYxxqn-qLWYOa > > 8oByvhphYn0IWPvP-rwhJfnI61REB-9wquqpynEEdKJl0X271lXhFcIkVejTI97f_-715aBoh48o > m2v3jREiFtX-eV7C0mR3iGd&typo=1 > <https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flistinfo.cgi%2fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,mmPokZ5kJYxxqn-qLWYOa8oByvhphYn0IWPvP-rwhJfnI61REB-9wquqpynEEdKJl0X271lXhFcIkVejTI97f_-715aBoh48om2v3jREiFtX-eV7C0mR3iGd&typo=1> > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flistinfo.cgi%2fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,F_GSIi4FQnuM_GSrnPB_SGPFky-a8NaeA0vCwjgGL0R1ZTDKRDWkPYa_JCYFgW3rGN9nBebWdPn8vX6R9or_ltB2cwKiERaayM7gz_xEgjCewtc,&typo=1 > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2flists.firesprinkler.org%2flistinfo.cgi%2fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org&c=E,1,9os33rJwEVuTAyT_HOBXRdYgsdVKl3G4wgsW_857-0TS6SZBR7YAY4VNJpmxWyy6KPTCyafA1dQbkZ43WOsKqFzAlGMSosGnmxkyc2u3VdDLlZrJ8ngs&typo=1 > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > [email protected] > > http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list [email protected] http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
