Yes, I have done an FM approved ESFR job with beams spaced 5'-0" o.c., and only calc'd. for 12 heads. Also baffles are not allowed with ESFR sprinklers.
Dennis Wilson Blackhawk Sprinklers. -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 2:10 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Kyle.Montgomery <kmontgom...@aerofire.com>; Mike Hairfield <fsl...@msn.com> Subject: RE: ESFR - Minimum Remote Area Size In the FM Datasheets, it looks like the minimum design area is 768 sq ft (64 x 12), EXCEPT when sprinklers are required in every channel created by obstructed construction. In the case of sprinklers in every channel, it appears as though you just calculate the required minimum number of sprinklers. I THINK (certainly not a leading authority on this) that the heat from a fire will be directed along the channel, which minimizes the concern for "skipping". Anyone else have thoughts on this, either in agreement or otherwise? It looks like I can protect it per FM Global criteria, but I'd rather not open that can of worms if there's a legitimate way to apply NFPA 13. I guess it all comes down to whether the minimum spacing applies if there is a solid obstruction between the sprinklers. I'm confident that it wouldn't with standard spray sprinklers, but looking for some reassurance (or rebuke) when it comes to ESFR. -Kyle M -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 12:41 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Kyle.Montgomery <kmontgom...@aerofire.com>; Mike Hairfield <fsl...@msn.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] RE: ESFR - Minimum Remote Area Size Deflector distance isn't a problem, I can either run the branch line up high in every pocket/bay or utilize an upright ESFR (Tyco ESFR-17). I was thinking that the minimum spacing didn't apply when there was an obstruction/baffle between the heads (in this case, the legs of the concrete tee) and the heads are installed in "every bay channel formed by solid structural members". This is specifically allowed in the FM Datasheets, but I believe they also have a minimum remote areas size that would require you to add sprinklers to the remote area. Is the consensus among the group that this building (concrete tees with legs 5 feet on center) just cannot be protected with ESFR sprinklers per NFPA 13? And, if that's the case, are we also saying that any time there is a beam/obstruction in an ESFR system that the heads on either side of it still need to be at least 8 feet apart? You can't have a head 3 feet away on each side of the beam (heads 6 feet apart but with a solid obstruction/baffle between them)? -Kyle M -----Original Message----- From: Sprinklerforum <sprinklerforum-boun...@lists.firesprinkler.org> On Behalf Of Mike Hairfield via Sprinklerforum Sent: Wednesday, December 29, 2021 12:22 PM To: sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org Cc: Mike Hairfield <fsl...@msn.com> Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: ESFR - Minimum Remote Area Size I don’t believe ESFR sprinklers can be installed in a concrete tee building. Minimum spacing is 8’-0” and what is the deflector distance. Mike Sent from my iPhone > On Dec 29, 2021, at 2:11 PM, Kyle.Montgomery via Sprinklerforum > <sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org> wrote: > > I'm dealing with an existing concrete tee building that the owner wants to > retrofit with an ESFR system. Heads will be closely spaced due to the > obstruction caused by the tees; 5-foot on center. Does NFPA 13 have a minimum > remote area size, or is it just 12 heads? > > -Kyle M > > _______________________________________________ > Sprinklerforum mailing list > Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org > https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__https%3A%2F%2Fna01.safelinks.protection.outlook.com%2F%3Furl%3Dhttp*3A*2F*2Flists.firesprinkler.org*2Flistinfo.cgi*2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org%26amp%3Bdata%3D04*7C01*7C*7C2243e8f422f447e9e98808d9caff0ba5*7C84df9e7fe9f640afb435aaaaaaaaaaaa*7C1*7C0*7C637764019046194532*7CUnknown*7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0*3D*7C3000%26amp%3Bsdata%3Dpbf*2BoThaf77nppLZONRpZrs9AwSkwAHo*2FPdId21LXD8*3D%26amp%3Breserved%3D0__%3BJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJSUlJQ!!Ba8_KKAT!cFpuCO_w9YY4Ug5JApVoeXhH0dAjA9mRe1AyvYgW_8Szjt_tnI_096ZtrSXQJ6oSgXY%24&data=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C5c7f1931d0954dba539a08d9cb07297c%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C1%7C637764053907638885%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=FrmpU9%2FEGhRmnuPsunYJ38%2BaVWftRIWjQ0Z%2FBtRlnDc%3D&reserved=0 > _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__%3B!!Ba8_KKAT!cFpuCO_w9YY4Ug5JApVoeXhH0dAjA9mRe1AyvYgW_8Szjt_tnI_096ZtrSXQNV76eoU%24&data=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C5c7f1931d0954dba539a08d9cb07297c%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C1%7C637764053907638885%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=rnp1V43GlcN%2BGBSardVXa8JZOo1g0oku5GtATtS3MOU%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=https%3A%2F%2Furldefense.com%2Fv3%2F__http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org__%3B!!Ba8_KKAT!YTVAuSzdiMYPwqZfcNAGOrGotgsI64o1BjqnawO_wJ_H_lOjDSSwHAUJxZFtTaUFcBg%24&data=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C5c7f1931d0954dba539a08d9cb07297c%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C1%7C637764053907638885%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=pPNLcXFubVq76EOe0JxRd5j1BplHJoturwxV0CLOszg%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org https://nam02.safelinks.protection.outlook.com/?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.firesprinkler.org%2Flistinfo.cgi%2Fsprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org&data=04%7C01%7Cdwilson%40blackhawksprinklers.com%7C5c7f1931d0954dba539a08d9cb07297c%7C20b3eafa18334148b9c58e75b45c105a%7C1%7C1%7C637764053907638885%7CUnknown%7CTWFpbGZsb3d8eyJWIjoiMC4wLjAwMDAiLCJQIjoiV2luMzIiLCJBTiI6Ik1haWwiLCJXVCI6Mn0%3D%7C3000&sdata=1zhLMNRBFPg7OBL7Btu40G5Q6Nm%2BWNSYmgtKLemrThQ%3D&reserved=0 _______________________________________________ Sprinklerforum mailing list Sprinklerforum@lists.firesprinkler.org http://lists.firesprinkler.org/listinfo.cgi/sprinklerforum-firesprinkler.org
