Bruce,
And your comment prompts this caveat from me regarding the application
of 8-9.
Quite some time ago I learned from FM Global, that to appropriately use
8-9 as establishing the criteria for protection of storage that the
entire fire sprinkler system has to meet FM Global guide documents. It
isn't a matter of designing/installing a system per -13 and selecting
the protection criteria for storage from 8-9.
The system has to conform to all of the FM Global data sheets, beginning
with 2-0.
And just a question out of curiosity, Scot, when I looked at the
reference to 2.2.4.3 of sheet 8-9, I saw that it covered "rack storage"
which was not what Steve was asking about. Wouldn't 2.3.3.7 and Tables
3 through 5 be more applicable as they include "bin-box" storage
arrangements?
sincerely,
*Ken Wagoner, SET*
*Parsley Consulting
500 West Mechanic Street
Harrisonville, Missouri 64701-2235*
*Phone: (760) 745-6181 *
*Visit the website
<https://linkprotect.cudasvc.com/url?a=http%3a%2f%2fwww.parsleyconsulting.com%2f&c=E,1,Y5zKJKPEh1mBEBqSR-VE9cUKl5y-eyP8BpvmE_5j9ZqW2eJbNphYzrCMBZ-2YuX6d-RRkHI4gQ1FV-cvOeCfRC58uZS9NiToZv2mx7909oCqLvCW_n5hDHeK&typo=1>*
On 5/19/2023 10:31 AM, BRUCE VERHEI wrote:
For the AHJ types skulking out there, I would back up Scot’s comments,
and add the late Joe Hankins to list of highly respected FM P.E.’s.
The one comment I do have is that’s #13 is intended to be used as a
standard, and 8-9 et al as guidance to FM’s engineers and insured. It
much more expects good intent, and is not to be applied for those who
go looking for what-if loopholes.
We accepted 8-9 all the time, while still applying the seismic etc
standards from #13.
Best.
Bruce Verhei
On 05/18/2023 3:34 PM PDT å... .... <eurekaig...@gmail.com> wrote:
If the client resticts their bin-box (open-top) containers to only
the lowest level of storage, there are onerous work-arounds.
I would take my design directions from FM, as most of their
high-piled plastic storage advice becomes NFPA 13. Simply FM Global
has been leader sin qua non, in sprinkler protection of industrial
rack storage for scores-and-more of years.
FM Global invokes the Bayesian far more often and far faster than
NFPA 13 (i.e. FM Global changes their mind to update their guess when
presented with new evidence). While it would appear that FM Global
procurement of evidence is biased, because they literally record
their own fire test data, I have found the integrity and the personal
effort offered by their personnel as a paramount case study in
information sharing for the fire safety community. At the risk of
tainting their reputations by association with this writer, I can not
recommend enough the personal contributions Prateep Chatterjee and
Weston Baker of FM Global, have made to our industry.
Section 2.2.4.3 of FM Global's Data Sheet 8-9 talks to us on your
subject. You are in good care with their share.
Collusion exposure statement: Scot Deal has no financial links to FM
Global either through payments or client procurement collaborations.
Scot Deal is financially linked to NFPA through subscription fees.
Scot Deal
Excelsior Risk and Fire Engineering
gms: +420 606 872 129 <tel:+420606872129>
Si vis pacem, para vinum
On Thu, May 18, 2023 at 11:47 PM Steve Leyton
<st...@protectiondesign.com> wrote:
I want to be sure that I’ve got this right: A client is moving
into a brand-new ESFR protected warehouse space and they want to
build a two level bin-box system. I explained that they would
have to fire protect below the walkways and they’ve come back to
me asking whether or not building just the lower level of the
system would alleviate the need to make sprinkler system
improvements. The CMSA and ESFR protection tables in Chapter 14
(2016 edition) don’t include bin-box or plastics in the
application range, Only palletized and solid pile, Classes
1-4. If they want to use a bin-box system, do they have to
change roof sprinklers out for CMDA? Or can the ESFR remain and
CMDA sprinklers would be installed under walkways when they’re built?
I miss the little bitty book and pipe scheduled systems…
*Steve Leyton, President*
T ***|* 619.255.8964 <tel:619.255.8964>x 102 *|
*_www.protectiondesign.com <http://www.protectiondesign.com/>
_2851 Camino Del Rio South *|* Suite 210 *|* San Diego, CA 92108*
*Fire Protection System Design *|*Consulting *|*Planning *|*Training
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to
sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email tosprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org
_________________________________________________________
SprinklerForum mailing list:
https://lists.firesprinkler.org/list/sprinklerforum.lists.firesprinkler.org
To unsubscribe send an email to sprinklerforum-le...@lists.firesprinkler.org
