Seems like exactly what I need! Many thanks for all your help, I will try 
that out right away :)

On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 7:04:51 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote:
>
>
>
> On 4/1/15 10:28 AM, Pierre B wrote:
>  
>  Here's a simple visual of the schema
>  
>
> OK, so that's called a polymorphic foreign key.  SQLAlchemy doesn't have 
> first class support for this concept because it's relationally incorrect, 
> but there is an example at 
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/_modules/examples/generic_associations/generic_fk.html
>  
> which shows one way to produce this effect.    The key aspects to this in 
> reference to your model attempts are that there are no ForeignKey objects; 
> objects like Column and ForeignKey are schema-level objects, and if you 
> construct one, that implies it exists in the schema.  That's why you can't 
> make two Column objects with the same name pointing to the same table, and 
> this is what I'm referring to when I say that the schema has to be 
> considered when building out these declarations.
>
> The techniques to make the relationship here involve using the 
> "primaryjoin" argument to establish how the tables join directly, as well 
> as the "foreign()" annotation and/or "foreign_keys" argument which you can 
> see used in the example; that is, how the tables join is constructed using 
> all ORM constructs and not schema-level constructs.
>
>
>
>   
>  <https://i.imgur.com/TaC2V6b.png>
>
> There are no foreign key constraints in the database schema, id1 and id2 
> are just stored there, a type column is used to retrieve records e.g type 
> equals B for an association between RightB and ReftB and equals A between 
> RightA and LeftA. That is why I'm trying to set a default value for the 
> type column so I don't have to deal with that junction table when inserting 
> records.
>
>
> On Wednesday, April 1, 2015 at 4:11:03 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote: 
>
>  
>
> On 4/1/15 4:55 AM, Pierre B wrote:
>  
> Unfortunately I'm inheriting the relational model from an old application. 
> I have dozens of tables using a single junction table for associations. 
> I can not completely redesign my relational model because it needs to be 
> compatible with the old application.
>  
> I was asking no such thing.  I only ask that you consider the relational 
> model when building *new* elements of the application.   If these models 
> are in fact mapping to an existing schema, I find it surprising that your 
> existing database schema includes *two* foreign key constraints present on 
> each of people4l2.id1 and people4l2.id2, constraining each column to both 
> left1.id/left2.id and right1.id/right2.id.    
>
>
>
>
>   At this point, I think my best option is setting up table inheritance 
> at the database level (database is Postgresql) and migrating records into 
> children tables. Minimal code refactoring would be involved in the old 
> application and it would be possible to use the association object pattern.
>
> On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 8:05:19 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote: 
>
>
>
> Pierre B <rocambol...@gmail.com> wrote: 
>
> > I tried using the association object pattern before but can't get it to 
> work because I use the same id1 and id2 columns for all foreign keys and 
> I'm not able to override them in the sub-classes ("conflicts with existing 
> column" error). 
> > class MyClass(HasSomeAttribute, db.Model): 
> >    __tablename__ = 'people4l2' 
> >    id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > 
> > class MySubClass1(MyClass): 
> >    right1_id = db.Column('id2', db.Integer, ForeignKey('right1.id')) 
> >    left1_id = db.Column('id1', db.Integer, ForeignKey('left1.id')) 
> >     
> > class MySubClass2(MyClass): 
> >    right2_id = db.Column('id2', db.Integer, ForeignKey('right2.id')) 
> >    left2_id = db.Column('id1', db.Integer, ForeignKey('left2.id’)) 
>
> That’s because you do not have a __tablename__ for these subclasses, so 
> when 
> you put a column on the subclass, that is physically a column on the 
> ‘people4l2’ table; the names cannot be conflicting. Also, it is not 
> possible 
> to have a column named “people4l2.id2” which is in some cases a foreign 
> key 
> to “right1.id” and in other cases to “right2.id”. 
>
> This probably all seems very complicated if you only think of it in terms 
> of 
> a Python object model. That’s why it is essential that you design your 
> database schema in terms of database tables, and how those tables will 
> work 
> within a purely relational model, without Python being involved, first. 
>
> For simple cases, the design of the relational model and the object model 
> are so similar that this explicit step isn’t necessary, but once the goals 
> become a little bit divergent between relational and object model, that’s 
> when the relational model has to be developed separately, up front. This 
> is 
> the essence of how SQLAlchemy works, which becomes apparent the moment you 
> get into models like these which are typically impossible on most other 
> ORMs, since most ORMs do not consider design of the relational model as 
> separate from the object model. 
>
> The tradeoff here is basically between “more work with SQLAlchemy” vs. 
> “not possible at all with other ORMs”  :) 
>
> The relational model is the more rigid part of the system here, so you 
> have to 
> work that part out first; then determine how you want to map the Python 
> object model on top of the relational model. 
>
> > On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 4:29:52 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote: 
> > 
> > 
> > Pierre B <rocambol...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > 
> > > Here's my use case: 
> > > right1 = Right() 
> > > right.left = Left() 
> > > 
> > > right2 = Right2() 
> > > right2.left = Left2() 
> > > 
> > > db.session.add(right) // automatically create the junction using 
> MySubClass1 and set the type field to 1 
> > > db.session.add(right2) // automatically create the junction using 
> MySubClass1 and set the type field to 2 
> > > db.session.commit() 
> > > 
> > > Basically I have a junction table associating a bunch of different 
> tables in my model. 
> > > I want to abstract that mechanism using relationships and polymorphism 
> so that I don't have to deal with that junction table while coding. 
> > > The relationships I created allow me to not have to deal with it while 
> selecting records but I can't get it to set the type field while inserting 
> records. 
> > 
> > OK, you are using the association object pattern. You cannot use 
> “secondary” 
> > in the way that you are doing here. You need to map a relationship to 
> > MySubClass1 explicitly. To reduce verbosity, you’d then apply the 
> > association proxy pattern. Without association proxy, your association 
> of 
> > right and left will be something like: 
> > 
> > right2 = Right2() 
> > right2.left_association = MySubClass1() 
> > right2.left_association.left = Left2() 
> > 
> > the association proxy then allows for MySubClass1() to be called 
> > automatically and you can refer to “right2.left” directly. 
> > 
> > Start with: 
> > 
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/orm/basic_relationships.html#association-object
>  
> > 
> > make that work completely, with the more verbose use pattern. 
> > 
> > then when that is totally working and understood, then move onto 
> association 
> > proxy: 
> > 
> > 
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/orm/extensions/associationproxy.html 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > > On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 4:11:51 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote: 
> > > 
> > > Pierre B <rocambol...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > 
> > > > I made a type in the Right model, here are the models again: 
> > > 
> > > if you’re referring to the behavior of Right.left when you use it in a 
> > > query, such as query(Right).join(Right.left), then the “default” value 
> of a 
> > > Column object has no interaction there. 
> > > 
> > > it seems like you probably want to do something very simple here but 
> I’m not 
> > > getting enough information on what that is. If you could illustrate 
> the 
> > > usage of the objects that you are looking for, that would help. 
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > > class HasSomeAttribute(object): 
> > > >     @declared_attr.cascading 
> > > >     def type(cls): 
> > > >        if has_inherited_table(cls): 
> > > >            if cls.__name__ == 'MySubClass1': 
> > > >                return db.Column(db.Integer, default=1) 
> > > >            else: 
> > > >                return db.Column(db.Integer, default=2) 
> > > >        else: 
> > > >            return db.Column(db.Integer, default=0) 
> > > >         
> > > > class MyClass(HasSomeAttribute, db.Model): 
> > > >    __tablename__ = 'people4l2' 
> > > >    id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > >     id1 = db.Column(db.Integer) 
> > > >     id2 = db.Column(db.Integer) 
> > > > 
> > > > class MySubClass1(MyClass): 
> > > >    pass 
> > > >     
> > > > class MySubClass2(MyClass): 
> > > >    pass 
> > > > 
> > > > class Right(db.Model): 
> > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > >     left = relationship( 
> > > >        'Left', 
> > > >        secondary= MySubClass1.__table__, 
> > > >        primaryjoin='and_(MySubClass1.type == 802, MySubClass1.id2 == 
> Right.id)', 
> > > >        secondaryjoin='and_(MySubClass1.type == 802, MySubClass1.id1 
> == Left.id)' 
> > > >    ) 
> > > > 
> > > > class Left(db.Model): 
> > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Tuesday, March 31, 2015 at 12:12:35 PM UTC+2, Pierre B wrote: 
> > > > Hi Michael, 
> > > > 
> > > > Thank you for your response. 
> > > > Unfortunately I have already tried to use the __init__ 
> function/catch the init event but I am only referencing the sub classes in 
> a relationship which does not seem to actually instantiate classes because 
> the __init__ is never called/init event is never fired. 
> > > > Here is a simple version of my models. 
> > > > 
> > > > class HasSomeAttribute(object): 
> > > >     @declared_attr.cascading 
> > > >     def type(cls): 
> > > >         if has_inherited_table(cls): 
> > > >             if cls.__name__ == 'MySubClass1': 
> > > >                 return db.Column(db.Integer, default=1) 
> > > >             else: 
> > > >                 return db.Column(db.Integer, default=2) 
> > > >         else: 
> > > >             return db.Column(db.Integer, default=0) 
> > > >         
> > > > class MyClass(HasSomeAttribute, db.Model): 
> > > >     __tablename__ = 'people4l2' 
> > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > >     id1 = db.Column(db.Integer) 
> > > >     id2 = db.Column(db.Integer) 
> > > > 
> > > > class MySubClass1(MyClass): 
> > > >     pass 
> > > >     
> > > > class MySubClass2(MyClass): 
> > > >     pass 
> > > > 
> > > > class Right(db.Model): 
> > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > >     subclass_attr = relationship( 
> > > >         'Contact', 
> > > >         secondary= MySubClass1.__table__, 
> > > >         primaryjoin='and_(MySubClass1.type == 802, MySubClass1.id2 
> == Right.id)', 
> > > >         secondaryjoin='and_(MySubClass1.type == 802, MySubClass1.id1 
> == Left.id)' 
> > > >     ) 
> > > > 
> > > > class Left(db.Model): 
> > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > > 
> > > > MyClass is used as a junction table for a bunch of different 
> relationships, the type field is used to differentiate the relationships. 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > On Monday, March 30, 2015 at 5:26:30 PM UTC+2, Michael Bayer wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Pierre B <rocambol...@gmail.com> wrote: 
> > > > 
> > > > > Hi all, 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I'm ultimately trying to have different default values for the 
> same column. Following the documentation, the @declared_attr.cacading 
> decorator seems to be the best approach. 
> > > > > Here's my code: 
> > > > > class HasSomeAttribute(object): 
> > > > >     @declared_attr.cascading 
> > > > >     def type(cls): 
> > > > >         if has_inherited_table(cls): 
> > > > >             if cls.__name__ == 'MySubClass1': 
> > > > >                 return db.Column(db.Integer, default=1) 
> > > > >             else: 
> > > > >                 return db.Column(db.Integer, default=2) 
> > > > >         else: 
> > > > >             return db.Column(db.Integer, default=0) 
> > > > >         
> > > > > class MyClass(HasSomeAttribute, db.Model): 
> > > > >     __tablename__ = 'people4l2' 
> > > > >     id = db.Column(db.Integer, primary_key=True) 
> > > > > 
> > > > > class MySubClass1(MyClass): 
> > > > >     pass 
> > > > >     
> > > > > class MySubClass2(MyClass): 
> > > > >     pass 
> > > > > 
> > > > > I iterated quite a few times over this but I'm systematically 
> getting this error: 
> > > > > ArgumentError: Column 'type' on class <class 
> '__main__.MySubClass1'> conflicts with existing column 'people4l2.type’ 
> > > > 
> > > > this mapping illustrates MySubClass1 and MySubClass2 as both sharing 
> the 
> > > > same table “people4l2”, as they have no __tablename__ attribute, so 
> there 
> > > > can only be one “type” column. So in this case it is not appropriate 
> to use 
> > > > cascading in exactly this way, as MyClass already has a “type” 
> column, and 
> > > > that gets attached to the “people4l2” table and that’s it; there can 
> be no 
> > > > different “type” column on MySubClass1/MySubClass2. 
> > > > 
> > > > If you’d like “type” to do something different based on which class 
> is being 
> > > > instantiated, this is an ORM-level differentiation. Use either the 
> > > > constructor __init__() to set it or use the init() event 
> > > > (
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/orm/events.html?highlight=event%20init#sqlalchemy.orm.events.InstanceEvents.init).
>  
>
> > > > 
> > > > OTOH if “type” is actually the “polymoprhic discriminator”, which is 
> what 
> > > > this looks like, then you’d be looking to just set up “type” as the 
> > > > “polymorphic_on” column and set up the “1”, “2”, “0” as the 
> polymorphic 
> > > > identity (see 
> > > > 
> http://docs.sqlalchemy.org/en/rel_0_9/orm/inheritance.html#single-table-inheritance
>  
> > > > for a simple example). 
> > > > 
> > > > 
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