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On Thu, March 16, 2006 10:52, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >>> Contacting admins is very difficult. I tried it out and got no >>> response at all. >> Hrm, can you give us a time you tried so I can go back through my >> archives and see if I can find it? > From: "Qv90" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Datum: Mo, 9.01.2006, 19:24 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Regarding project SM-Plugins > Von: "Jam" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Datum: Mo, 9.01.2006, 19:54 > An: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Regarding Project SquirrelMail Hrm, I thought I'd replied to this, though for some reason, it is not marked. Plugins portion is headed by two different people (Tomas notified you on your thread on the plugins list who they are), Paul and Jimmy. >>> always update the tickets, bugs are fixed all the time. Watch the >>> CVS lists. > One comment on CVS: For SM users is is useless: > According to your own rules, CVS code is not stable, may change from day > to day and is not supported at all. I tried CVS 1.5.1 and posted already > a couple of month ago code that enables SM to do password chages using > "passwd". Not yet added (may in 1.5.2 or so). Well, CVS MAIN/HEAD is not stable. The stable branch is generally stable as we tend not to pull feature requests into it too often to maintain stability. Though we always recommend using a release version, I run my server on stable cvs without any issues. > Since I'm located in Germany I'd to provide a german interface. > squirrelmai.po was not changed in CVS. I was willing to do the translation > but was stopped with the same arguments as mentioned above (not > stable...). This baffles me. What is missing in the translations? I believe all the languages stuff has been pulled into a central cvs branch to unify translations and save duplication of work. >> Okay, it's a new year, well 3 months into it. What do you think we can >> do to improve? If you have references to your old ideas, that'd be >> great. We are always looking to improve things. We are currently >> working on a new website, bug tracker, and documentation to name just a >> few things, so we are certainly interested in feedback on what we can >> improve on. > Do not only maintain CVS. Offer us a stable base version AND bug fixes. > Accept users input (like code pieces) in a forum. Use this code as an > inspriration for SM enhancements. Use my site as an inspiration :-). To be honest, the website is under review, and we'll take these ideas into consideration. I was already thinking about allowing comments on plugins, but adding the ability to create patches might also be a good idea. > Take one moment to think ybout this: After installing SM 1.4.6 and > installing a couple of plugins, I'd to apply 16 patches to get SM into a > stable productive version. The plugins installed are only those > desperately requested the the SM users. Additionally I'd to apply 9 > translation patches because of the poor internationalization support in > those plugins (and I hope, the users will never ask for other translations > than into German...) I'm not arguing that plugins need work, we know that. The plugin authors need to be kicked in the butt sometimes to get them to fix it. :) >>> Then I tried to post them (including a solution proposal) on bug >>> tracker and... nothing happend. Okok, you may argue 3 month on bug >>> tracker is not > This is a typo - to be honest, it was only two month... >>> a long time, but for me as an user who has to work with buggy code >>> for over a year it IS quite a long time... >> Which bug tracker did you post to? Unfortunately, not all plugin >> admins look at the SM bug tracker. > Good question. On sourceforge you'll find Plugins, SM-Plugins and SM > project. After searching around (and that is also a nasty task for users), > I decided to use http://sourceforge.net/tracker/?group_id=311&atid=423692 > Search for QV90 Ahh, see I don't generally monitor the plugins stuff, and I don't believe the plugins tracker submits emails to the bugs list, so I probably didn't see them being submitted. >> If the plugin developer doesn't have time to maintain it any more, >> there are certainly plenty of people to take over development, you for >> example. [..] > No, I disagree. I'm already a plugin developer. I followed once agin your > rules and send out a mail (off list) to all plugin maintainer. I wanted > to bug fix their plugins if they don't answer until March 15th. > Bad approach. It was stopped immediatly with a NO-GO. No chance to modify > any existing plugin until the current maintainer dies or a SM developper > (whoever) think someone else should take over the plugin maintenance. > Since I only wanted to apply bug fixes and not to take over > responsibility, I'd no choice. I stopped this approach and started working > on SM Patch Forum... Okay, so maybe we need to think about how we handle the management of plugins in general. There is nothing stopping you hosting your own site, with the patches, or just posting them to the tracker, and remembering the patch for future reference. It would probably be handy to have them all centralized, and categorized as well, so maybe we can figure something out around that. The only fear I have is that it'd spawn too many subversions of the same plugin, when the author is maintaining the plugin, just taking their time. I dare say we could probably script up a small forum that allows a plugin to be submitted, allow others to comment and add patches. This in turn will notify the original author with updates. The author can then submit new versions of the plugin against that version, or leave it alone. The author can also set an option in the "forum" that flags the plugin as unmaintained, allowing anybody to take ownership. This would probably require some kind of "authorization" or something similar. >> [..] >> Okay, I'll cite another example. A few months ago, 3 people posted >> about the same bug... on the same day. You don't have to "dig" through >> the archives to see the information from that day to see the same issue. >> They even included almost identital subjects. > When I started using SM and stumbled over the first bugs, I'd to search > gmane for many hours and sometimes still ended up posting my questions on > list. This migth have changed in the last months. Search for change_passwd on gmane (both users and plugins list) for an example of what I mean. >> In general, it only makes it easier for us (you, me, Paul, etc) in >> general as we can say "click here". My comment was that people aren't >> going to bother looking at a patch site, and waste their time, when they >> can send a quick email, and have somebody else give them the answers. >> Unfortunately that's the way it is. Always has been, and probably always >> will be. > Uuh... I think you sould differentiate a bit more. There are users out > who tries first to find an solution and only ends up on mailing list. > Anyway, I think we should always try to give us all room for improvements > by offering additional or new ways to find answers to the questions. Sure, those that take the time to even attempt to look generally find what they are looking for, regardless of if there is an extra site or not. Those that don't bother to even attempt to look repost the same questions repeatedly. We'll look into some options, and see what we can come up with. - -- Jonathan Angliss <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE----- Version: GnuPG v1.4.2.2 (GNU/Linux) iEYEARECAAYFAkQZrBUACgkQK4PoFPj9H3OSewCgoJZHkY5gSZ3lu69FqBXXnzsh OZcAn0X1HX9lrgIHui9VfkC8IitbG1Nq =UFb0 -----END PGP SIGNATURE----- ------------------------------------------------------- This SF.Net email is sponsored by xPML, a groundbreaking scripting language that extends applications into web and mobile media. 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