On Wed, 6 May 2026 at 17:23, Dave Cridland <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> Hi all,
>
> I'm trying to summarise a discussion in the council@ chatroom, and - like an 
> LLM - I am not perfect so may misrepresent or misunderstand some views. 
> Errors, therefore, I shall claim as my own; views however are not.

Appreciated. From my perspective, I think you captured everything.

> In addition, "nick sharing" - allowing multiple full jids of the same user 
> behind a single occupant jid - makes forwarding most IQ stanzas complicated.

Not only IQ, messages are also a pain. Does the server fan out, or do
we rely on carbons? Today's answer is that currently the MUC server
fans out to all (joined) resources when you receive a PM, and your own
server fans out (via Carbons) when you send a PM. This leaves a lovely
asymmetric mess in your MAM archive.

> What we do in the future (under MUC2/GC3/IRC4 whatever) broadly falls into 3 
> options that were discussed.
>
> Option 1: The occupant jid forwards nothing, but has a way of requesting a 
> contact jid.
>
> Option 2: The occupant jid forwards everything to the user's bare jid, and 
> their server "deals" with it.

This gets my vote (note that it can be combined with option 1, I would
like a way to bootstrap from PM to a "real" conversation).

> Option 3: The occupant jid responds itself, without forwarding, and data 
> (vCards, PEP, etc) need to be uploaded by the user and stored by the MUC.

As mentioned, I disagree with this approach quite a bit, pretty much
for the reasons you mentioned.

> Option 4: The occupant jid has rules set by the user, which cause it to 
> either forward or reject particular traffic. I imagine some of these rules 
> will cause PEP subscriptions and event forwarding/fanout, potentially.

I'm not strongly opposed to this, I think it would be easy enough to
implement. But I don't know if it's overall the right approach vs
building better access control on the user account side.

> One outcome is that in Future-MUC, there's an implication that Private 
> Messages, PEP, and vCard will go to the *bare* Jid, and that unless we do 
> something "clever", so will Jingle calls to Occupants. We would then control 
> these with existing (or new) access control on our own server, or Option 4's 
> new rules, or some combination of both.

FWIW most clients are using JMI (XEP-0353) to bare JID for years now.
Obviously the subsequent session is between two clients, but
client-to-client is just as broken in MUC1 when multiple sessions are
joined, so we need to solve this anyway. That's the attraction of
option 1 - the MUC is only used for bootstrap.

Regards,
Matthew
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