The James Webb heat shielding was a very clever solution to keep the electronics cold.
BUT, the "dark side" of the moon gets the full sun when we (from earth) observe a new moon. Gene ----------------------------------- Eugene Chang [email protected] +1-781-799-0233 (in Honolulu) > On Apr 24, 2023, at 10:59 AM, Priyanka Sinha via Starlink > <[email protected]> wrote: > > I was wondering why we are considering DC in space to be classical computers > ? Given the ambient temperatures, should not the default configuration of a > DC in space be quantum ? > > In my conversations with Dr Thomas Aref, an experimental quantum computing > physicist, I learnt that the primary operational challenge in quantum > computing is in reaching and maintaining near 0K or -274 deg C temperatures. > > I am unaware of the heat diffusion of qubits, but if they are low then > bringing down the temperature from say -180 deg C to -274 deg C and > maintaining it maybe much simpler than on earth? quantum DC then in space is > feasible no ? maybe the only practical way for general purpose quantum > computing? > > Also, in case heat diffusion is the primary concern still, how about burying > the quantum DC underground lunar soil on the dark side of the moon with thin > atmosphere for heat dispersion as well as into lunar soil ? > > If this means we have more affordable and sustainable compute, yaay ! > -priyanka > > > From: "Rodney W. Grimes" <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>> > To: Hesham ElBakoury <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > Cc: Daniel Schien <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>, starlink > <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>, > Vint Cerf <[email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]>>, [email protected] > <mailto:[email protected]> > Bcc: > Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2023 07:36:39 -0700 (PDT) > Subject: Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs > in space) > > The article about the ASCEND project says: > > "Very low ambient temperatures in space will dramatically reduce the need > > for cooling equipment that consumes enormous amounts of energy. A > > significant part of a data center?s energy use is for cooling equipment, > > accounting for more than 50% in some facilities. Temperatures can be as low > > as -292?F (-180?C) when an orbiting object is in the Earth?s shadow." > > They seem to have skipped over the con's of trying to cool equipment > in space, there is no "mass" to cool into. There is no "air" to > cool with. You have to use conduction to get the heat from your > chips to the outer shell of the spacecraft, then you have to battle > with tring to radiate that heat into a VACUUM! People think they > have heat limiting issues today with ground based electronis, just > wait tell they try to solve this in a spacecraft!!! > > Someone should calculate the radiated surface size needed to remove > the heat generated by a 150W CPU into "space". It might enlighten > some of these folks that think its all about the temperature of space, > its not, its about the thermal mass of space being near 0. > > IMHO DC in space are going to have to find a solution to that MIPS > per W problem first! > > > > > Hesham > > > > On Wed, Apr 19, 2023, 10:44 PM Daniel Schien <[email protected] > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > wrote: > > > > > I assume any object in orbit will be hidden from the sun some of the time. > > > So, the machines will require some pretty big battery to go up with them. > > > > > > I'd like to also know what the launch cost is. > > > > > > Tom Segert estimates in his LinkedIn post, for a 100kg satellite payload: > > > > > > "TL:DR ~57 ton CO2e for a typical ESA satellite (including Ariane 6 > > > launch), <15t CO2e for a satellite built in a factory and launched with a > > > re-usable rocket." > > > > > > Depending on the type of server that should go up there, this is a fair > > > amount of carbon to offset from brighter sunlight. > > > > > > The article also gets the carbon footprint wrong: > > > > > > "Data centers are big energy consumers ? between 2% and 3% of all global > > > consumption ? a rate that is doubling every year." > > > > > > The latest was IEA estimating it to be around 220-320 TWh (out of 30,000) > > > in 2021 data and growing between 10-60% over 6 years in total (so let's > > > than 10 CAGR). But it's certainly not doubling every year. That's just > > > completely wrong. > > > > > > > > > Daniel Schien > > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Computer Science > > > > > > Department of Computer Science | University of Bristol > > > > > > *Submit software engineering project ideas for 2022* > > > > > > bris.ac.uk/software-engineering <http://bris.ac.uk/software-engineering> > > > Watch: https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI <https://youtu.be/lU-ZsBDFWDI> > > > > > > Merchant Venturers Building , Woodland Rd Bristol, BS8 1UB > > > *Book a meeting*: > > > https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/[email protected]/booki > > > > > > <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/[email protected]/booki> > > > <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/[email protected]/bookings/ > > > > > > <https://outlook.office365.com/owa/calendar/[email protected]/bookings/>> > > > ------------------------------ > > > *From:* E-impact <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> on behalf of Vint Cerf <vint= > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > *Sent:* Thursday, April 20, 2023 2:16:38 AM > > > *To:* [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > *Cc:* Michael Richardson <[email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; > > > starlink < > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>>; > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > *Subject:* Re: [E-impact] [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber > > > IXPs in space) > > > > > > O&M will be a bear > > > v > > > > > > > > > On Wed, Apr 19, 2023 at 9:13?PM Tom Evslin via Starlink < > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]>> > > > wrote: > > > > > > I think space-based data centers will be the rule rather than the > > > exception. Wrote about that a couple of years ago although, as usual, > > > things have not happened as quickly as I predicted > > > https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html > > > > > > <https://blog.tomevslin.com/2021/07/computing-clouds-in-orbit-a-possible-roadmap.html> > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: Starlink <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>> On Behalf Of > > > Michael Richardson via Starlink > > > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2023 7:35 PM > > > To: starlink <[email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]>>; [email protected] > > > <mailto:[email protected]> > > > Subject: [Starlink] DataCenters in Space (was Re: fiber IXPs in space) > > > > > > > > > I saw this reported in BIS-Spaceflight. > > > (I'm usually a few months behind in reading it) I like the "first > > > objective"! > > > > > > > > > https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data > > > > > > <https://www.thalesgroup.com/en/worldwide/space/press-release/ascend-thales-alenia-space-lead-european-feasibility-study-data> > > > > > > Cannes, November 14, 2022 ? Thales Alenia Space, the joint company between > > > Thales (67%) and Leonardo (33%), has been chosen by the European > > > Commission > > > to lead the ASCEND (Advanced Space Cloud for European Net zero emission > > > and > > > Data sovereignty) feasibility study for data centers in orbit, as part of > > > Europe?s vast Horizon Europe research program. > > > > > > Digital technology?s expanding environmental footprint is becoming a major > > > challenge: the burgeoning need for digitalization means that data centers > > > in Europe and around the world are growing at an exponential pace, which > > > in > > > turn has a critical energy and environmental impact. > > > > > > The first objective of this study will be to assess if the carbon > > > emissions from the production and launch of these space infrastructures > > > will be significantly lower than the emissions generated by ground-based > > > data centers, therefore contributing to the achievement of global carbon > > > neutrality. The second objective will be to prove that it is possible to > > > develop the required launch solution and to ensure the deployment and > > > operability of these spaceborne data centers using robotic assistance > > > technologies currently being developed in Europe, such as the EROSS IOD > > > demonstrator. > > > > > > This project is expected to demonstrate to which extent space-based data > > > centers would limit the energy and environmental impact of their ground > > > counterparts, thus allowing major investments within the scope of Europe?s > > > Green Deal, possibly justifying the development of a more > > > climate-friendly, > > > reusable heavy launch vehicle. Europe could thus regain its leadership in > > > space transport and space logistics, as well as the assembly and > > > operations > > > of large infrastructures in orbit. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Starlink mailing list > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Starlink mailing list > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink > > > <https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink> > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > Please send any postal/overnight deliveries to: > > > Vint Cerf > > > Google, LLC > > > 1900 Reston Metro Plaza, 16th Floor > > > Reston, VA 20190 > > > +1 (571) 213 1346 > > > > > > > > > until further notice > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > E-impact mailing list > > > [email protected] <mailto:[email protected]> > > > https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact > > > <https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/e-impact> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > Starlink mailing list > [email protected] > https://lists.bufferbloat.net/listinfo/starlink
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