Agh Otto,
If we were just talking about technology and science for its own pure sake,
that is one thing....eh ? There is the blunt truth and the timing and
distribution of the truth...
One small addition to your substantive comments about direct use of biomass:
What about the 20 to 25% of the charcoal that winds up as dust and crumbs on
the seller's stall floor in the million small towns is the developing nations ?
We have seen that over the past 15 years in a wide variety of climates,
cultures etc., etc., the local briquette micro entrepreneur/producer tends to
gather and blend in about 25% of this stuff, and blend it in with their
ordinary grass, straw,waste paper blend wherever they can obtain it.
Why ?
It burns with about double the calorific value of said ordinary briquette.
and it therefore sells for about 50% more.
It can integrate the ubiquitous activity of the charcoal selling with briquette
selling,
and ---probably most important for introducing a new product in a typically
conservative market--,
It "looks' like charcoal (and this is a 'big deal', marketing-wise,amongst the
user population at least).
Why not then use encourage the use of what already exists as a blight in the
local markets ?
Waste charcoal crumbs and fines are easier to collect, and as good, if not a
thermally better resource than what comes from agroresidue char making,
Waste charcoal is a lot cleaner to use in terms of carbon footprint of the
overall briquette making process,
and,
Its direct use is alot better for cleaning up the physical environment around
the sellers stalls,
Using existing waste charcoal is not of course the only solution esp when the
charcoal seller as has been seen, decides to drive up the price in the short
sighted intention to prevent use of their waste product, but it is also one
that should not be overlooked in the char biomass briquette discussions either
pressing on,
Richard Stanley
www.legacyfond.org
NW. Obamaland
On Sep 15, 2010, at 3:14 AM, Otto Formo wrote:
> Dear David, (and all)
>
> how come that "lessons learned" never reach their audience!!.................?
>
> The key issue is, and not only for the developing world, but for the whole
> planet:
> "To days waste - to morrows fuel"
> Instead of makeing charcoal, whereby 3/4 of the energy is "used" (wasted) in
> the charcoal makeing process, the biomass is processed into solar dried chips
> or pellets to be used in the TLUD ND stoves.
> These types of stoves operates like a sort of a micro-kiln, transferring the
> energy in the biomass from the forest to the kitchen by utillzing about 95 %
> of the combustible gases in the fuel for cooking and even makeing it possible
> to use the 25% of produced charcoal for simmering............can it be more
> efficient...........??
> Charcoal or biochar, if you like, will be sort of a bonus during this
> process.............
> There is no need to cut down the whole tree, just collect branches and other
> forest- and agri-waste.
> When you utillize 80% more of the energy content in the biomass, you will
> also reduce the demand for biomass dramatically and the same end product can
> be utillized as biochar on top......... is that so hard to understand?
>
> Why all this talking about factories when the stoves can be produced easily
> by local crafts men?
>
> The need of biopmass will allways be there, so it is a matter of transfering
> the production line towards woodchips and pellets........just like
> transfering the use from fossil fuel towards electrified or hydrogen
> cars.........just as "easy" as that..........
> It has to be done, sooner the better.
>
> Thanks for your attention.
> Otto
>
>
>
>> From: Nat of WorldStove [[email protected]]
>> Sent: 2010-09-14 16:32:29 MEST
>> To: [email protected], [email protected]
>> Subject: [Stoves] don't burn the charcoal bury it
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Rogerio, Kim, Crispin, Paul and all,
>>
>> It is true that the lure of quick cash is very strong, however I would like
>> to encourage a longer vision.
>>
>> The real powers of biochar producing stoves are:
>>
>> 1) lower emissions
>> 2) eliminate the need to cut down trees for fuel
>> 3) can use fuel too small to be used by wood burning stoves
>> 4) produce biochar
>> 5) sequester CO2
>>
>> We are no where near 350 ppm CO2, and sadly the areas that are suffering
>> most due to climate issues are (in many cases) the same areas that currently
>> depend on three rock stoves.
>>
>> While I agree that carbon credits seem to have little value vs charcoal
>> sales, they do allow for small villages to set up their own stove factories
>> creating permanent new jobs without asking for outside aid, and the char
>> produced by the stoves when placed in the soil, can increase crop yields to
>> the point that the earnings from the crop yields far exceeds the earning
>> potential of the charcoal sales. All this while increasing food
>> independence, improving nutrition, restoring desertified lands, and
>> sequestering CO2.
>>
>> If people were to sell the charcoal, non of this would be possible.
>> Just my two cents,
>>
>> All the best
>>
>> Nat of WorldStove
>>
>> Message: 3
>> Date: Mon, 13 Sep 2010 12:17:17 -0400
>> From: Jean Kim Chaix <[email protected]>
>> To: [email protected]
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Summary of cost of charcoal?
>> Message-ID:
>> <[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="windows-1252"
>>
>> Dear Stovers,
>> Apologies for the delayed response to this thread. Yes, we began collecting
>> charcoal and other biomass prices from spot locations around the globe with
>> a view at making it available to stakeholders. We are in the process of
>> making the prices uniform as Rogerio suggested in his comment below.
>>
>> We will make another push shortly online for more submissions. The more data
>> we collect, the more accurate the picture.
>>
>> Also, you should know the info presently visible online does not reflect all
>> the information we possess. We're still fine tuning the categories worth
>> sharing. The second issue is approximating a uniform measure. For example,
>> when folks submit prices for the equivalent of "a coffee can full of
>> charcoal" sold on the side of the road in Port-au-Prince, it then becomes
>> tricky to get a real measure of price/volume of charcoal.
>>
>> Since the most useful measure is probably, as Rogerio suggests, a metric
>> ton, it is best that submission be made using some type of standardized
>> measure, like a 100-lb burlap bag you would use for potatoes. From
>> photographs, it seems this type of bag is the preferred measure in
>> sS-Africa.
>>
>> Finally, a reminder that we are always open to ideas about how to improve
>> this tool!
>>
>> Rgds,
>>
>> Kim
>>
>>
>> Subject: Re: [Stoves] Summary of cost of charcoal?
>> Message-ID:
>> <[email protected]>
>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; DelSp="Yes";
>> format="flowed"
>>
>> Rogerio and all,
>>
>> 30 to 40 cents US per Kg for charcoal is real money!!! Even at half
>> those prices (allowing for char fines and processing, etc), it is
>> still much money.
>>
>> I estimate that a TLUD stove making charcoal could yield 250 to 350 kg
>> of actual carbon (or char with impurities). It is only logical that
>> the poor folks would opt to burn it.
>>
>> The carbon credit folks, especially those wanting to sequester char
>> from stoves, have a loooooong way to go to complete.
>>
>> Rogerio, I am in Brazil for the Rio conference. Will you be there?
>> Or where are you in Brazil? After Rio and Amazon excursion, I am back
>> in Sao Paulo from 19 to 23 Sept at contact number for Cassio: SP
>> 4243 9699. Or we talk via email. What are you up to these days???
>>
>> Paul
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