I was 29 when I started at Georgia Tech... married, two kids(1 when I started and had the other in my first year). But I also had little experience in the field and was looking to "start over"... I had to start somewhere, so that is how I choose to start. It was a tremendous amount of work, and there were many times that I didn't feel like I could possibly finish, but I did, and I am a better person for it. I also have a wonderfully understanding husband who shouldered a lot of the load. I met many people who profoundly effected my career while at school(hey, networking is networking) and have been told by many potential employers (paraphrased) "Hey, if you can manage a full time job, school full time, and a family... I think you can handle our project." I was really surprised at how impressed people were in that fact. I can't stress enough though... it was a tremendous amount of work. At the time it seemed like the best option, and if I had to do it all over again, I would do it in a heart beat.
-----Original Message----- From: Brandon Goodin [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 12:25 PM To: Struts Users Mailing List Subject: [Eva Sager] RE: Does a degree matter? What was your age when you went back to school? I am 29 (30 in August). I am married and have 2 young children (3,6). School seems to be a considerable financial/time investment. I just want to make sure I am not starting too late and doing too much for too little a result. Brandon Goodin -----Original Message----- From: Eva Sager [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 8:55 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Does a degree matter? This brings up a good point... if all you get out of a degree is learning specific technology... in a fast changing world you might get left behind. If you learn how to learn technology... if you learn another way of thinking... then you just might have something. My degree is in Computer Engineering and the courses that really taught me something were the courses that taught me how to solve problems, how to learn new technologies, and how people and technology relate. The courses that taught me about technology X didn't mean a thing, because technology X isn't even around anymore... or has changed so much that what I learned isn't relevant anymore. I guess what I am saying is that it might not be a question of "Does a degree matter?", but "What should I be learning?" and "How can I challenge myself?". I don't think that my degree by itself has helped me all that much... but the things I learned while getting it were invaluable. I have worked with many people who become absolutely paralyzed by complex problems, while getting my degree I learned to deal with these things. As I look back, I am not sure how much of it was learned from lecture and books and how much of it was learned by being thrown into problems and being told to sink or swim. In a academic environment, if you sink... there is someone there to pull you out and explain to you what you did wrong and how to deal with it next time. In a corporate environment you may or may not have that opportunity... you may just get fired. I went to a school with a very challenging curriculum, and I went late in life, as a full time student with a full time job and a family. Some of the most valuable lessons I learned had to do with time management, crisis management and how to work in an environment where the best you can hope for is not to fail too miserably due to the resources at hand (or lack there of). As I look back... that has come in quite handy... probably more so than I care to admit ;-) -----Original Message----- From: Thornton Scott Contractor CADRE/WGTD [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 10:11 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Does a degree matter? I got my degree in Electrical Engineering. One of my good friends got his masters degree in Cryptography. There are countless other engineers that got their degree's in technical fields. I loved EE because it just brought my brain to a new level of thinking. I am a much better problem solver than I would have ever been had I not studied EE. It also gave me the confidence that I could brake apart any problem into sub-problems and then solve each of those sub-problems. BTW, my boss, who was also a developer before he became a manager, has a PhD in Mathematics. Therefore, my advice is to study something technically challenging (and hopefully enjoyable) and learn software development in your language of choice on the side. -----Original Message----- From: PILGRIM, Peter, FM [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, April 02, 2003 8:23 AM To: 'Struts Users Mailing List' Subject: RE: Does a degree matter? > -----Original Message----- > From: Craig R. McClanahan [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > On Sat, 29 Mar 2003, Arron Bates wrote: > > > Date: Sat, 29 Mar 2003 20:36:21 -0600 > > From: Arron Bates <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > Brandon, > > > > If you can do the deed (which it sounds like you can), I > would hazard offering > > my opinion in thinking that it wouldn't be the best use of > your time. By --////-- > > My personal experience (both for myself and for folks I have > hired over > the years) mirrors this -- indeed, my personal opinion is > that a Comp Sci > degree is worth less (to me as an employer) than a degree in > some field > that is more closely associated with the general needs of potential > employers. > > Why? A couple of reasons: > > * Many folks who go for Comp Sci degrees obsess over learning the > particular technologies being taught in their classes, at > the expense > of courses to improve your general thinking skills. Any specific > technology you learn in your first year is going to be totally > obsolete by the time you graduate from the program anyway, so why > bother? The important skill to employers (at least from my > viewpoint) > is that you've learned how to quickly adapt your existing skills to > new technologies as they become available. Also, the fundamentals > of good architecture and design practices tend to change much more > slowly than the favorite language de jour -- so if you decide to go > for Comp Sci, focus on fundamentals like O-O, design patterns, > and so on. I got my degree over 10 years ago, and technology justs moves to fast to keep. THe first year I learned Pascal. Then second year, I learnt Concurrent Pascal with a classic book, by Isreali fella, maybe you might know of it, Ali, Adi. I also learnt Assembly language. In the forth year I finally learnt Fortran and C, pre-ANSI. > > * Many folks who go for Comp Sci degrees are so focused on > the technical > things, and don't accumulate any domain knowledge along the way that > would make you *more* valuable to potential employers than another > Comp Sci graduate with similar skills. If you're building > e-commerce > systems, do you know anything about the fundamental accounting > principles involved in tracking purchases? If you're building > systems to introduce novices to the world of online information, > have you ever studied any human factors engineering? If you're > building trading systems for a Wall Street broker, do you have the > slightest idea how stock and commodity exchanges work? > Definitely. If there a modular course in Investment Banking back in the 1980's and being where I am now. Knowing what I know now. I would have go for it like a rancid dog! > It may surprise some of you to find out that I don't have a Comp Sci > degree at all -- instead, I got a BA in Business with a focus on > Accounting. This was ***tremendously*** helpful in setting > me apart from > everyone else who was learning programming and systems > analysis in those > days -- I could immediately communicate with the end users > responsible for > the systems we were building, using their vocabulary, without > having to be > trained -- in addition to the fact that I was a fair-to-middlin' > programmer :-). > > If you are looking at going to college today (either because it's that > time in your life, or because the job market sucks right now), I would > suggest thinking about a primary major other than Comp Sci > (with a Comp > Sci minor to keep your hand in on all the technical stuff). > The name of > the game is making yourself more valuable, relative to > everyone else out > there -- and, quite frankly, there are more interesting things in the > world than just computers and web apps :-). > > Craig > If you are die hard techie, then you should get "first honours" or "second class honours" from a Computer Science degree, at British University at least. But I would recommend, strongly, that you also look at a ``Combined Degree'' such as computing and international economic, computing and biotechnology (hot!), computing and engineering, or physical sciences. Also I would seriously look at humanities, arts related degrees for good combination. If you are interested in digital arts, photography, graphic, design and web, you might something computing related. Dont do what a lot of people did/do. Bog standard boring. Mathematics and Computer Science unless, of course, you instead to be Professor at Oxbridge. Mix it up -- Peter Pilgrim, Struts/J2EE Consultant, RBoS FM, Risk IT Tel: +44 (0)207-375-4923 ******************************************************************** Visit our Internet site at http://www.rbsmarkets.com This e-mail is intended only for the addressee named above. 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