Personally, I am on Yama's side on this one, if only for environmental reasons. (Although it would be great if someone could design a solar-powered printer where the toner was simply locally ground-up charcoal.) But a technical solution whereby some enterprising Bolivia--the next Marcelo Claure--can set up their own Kinko's-like service would be perhaps a nice compromise. Marvin Minsky once said: "Some day paper will be a luxury item for the rich." But in the meantime, let's enable local entrepreneurship.
-walter On Tue, Oct 21, 2008 at 2:33 PM, Yama Ploskonka <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > hey Jeff, seems I got the bad end of that broadside... > > I am developing things for Bolivia, and I am known as someone who makes > virtue out of lack of resources. > That is why I (you're entitled to your opinion) see the lack of printing > as a good thing - discourages the use of very, very limited resources. > > I also see the lack of access to MS Windows as positive - it sure means > less access to the biggest amount of available educational software, > ready to use for a few cents as pirateware, but all the issues of > viruses and moral weight of knowingly stealing. > Likewise I am not worried about horrible connectivity in my area - that > just means we have to be even better at building up our local community, > since we have less access to the international one. It does upset me, > sure, but it's something to turn into an advantage... > > Oh yes, I wish it were different, that we had enough resources to do > things differently, and I am quite encouraged, even if you and I differ > on this one point, that we do agree on the need for a very solid server > with lotsa goodies in it, making a deployment less dependent of the > internet. > > Interesting your take on ideological reasons for / against printing > support. I myself see printing is currently a need of the richer > partners, since in Bolivia there very seldom is a budget for printing > supplies or any kind of maintenance, but I might be limiting the project > to my own tunnel-vision. > > Yama > > Jeff wrote: >> Because it is "defective by design" does not mean that it is a feature >> and not a flaw. >> >> I manage 5 school-labs in deepest, darkest, rural Africa; and printing >> has never been much of a support issue. >> >> Sure there are issues with CUPS. Especially with printers going offline >> when they run out of paper and needing to be manually re-"started" in a >> web browser... but we've managed to get around that and train the >> teachers (in about 5 minutes flat). They also change their toner >> cartridges with ease, and can justify the expense for printer toner as >> easily as for photocopier... And most of them have a budget for that. >> >> I am immensely frustrated with the pandering to the lowest common >> denominator which I view as a cultural disease on the server-devel list. >> >> I don't wish to address each and every issue - but I disagree completely >> that printing is an issue, and that VSAT is not the way to get on the >> internet or cannot be upscaled. >> >> Please stop imagining that lowest-spec, cheapest hardware and >> crippleware is the answer - or that 3'rd World countries will never >> progress towards a reasonable standard. That attitude is patronizing and >> demeaning. And wrong. >> >> -Jeff >> >> >> >> >> >> On 21 Oct 2008, at 3:33 PM, Yama Ploskonka wrote: >> >>> When I am asked about whether the XO handles printing, I present that >>> the fact it does not is a feature, not a bug. >>> >>> And people understand. >>> >>> It is not out of the ordinary that the life of school printers will be >>> the life of the first set of ink cartridges or toner, there being no >>> budget to refill them once they are gone. Of course people could pay a >>> few cents a copy for the toner fund, but then that would require endless >>> structure, trust it will not be misused, etc... >>> >>> It is true that, for too many teachers, what is not on paper actually >>> does not exist, thus limiting the "usefulness" of the XO in their minds >>> to an almost nil value unless it can print. >>> Getting things printed is not the way to solve this, just as VSAT is not >>> the way to get internet - neither can be scaled up, neither is >>> sustainable. As Martin wisely indicates and I agree wholeheartedly, >>> this is more a social problem than one of software. >>> >>> Ultimately having the Write documents to be printed be uploaded to a >>> specific folder in the XS, and that be the queue for printing should be >>> rather simple (the "print" function on the XO would do that, and the >>> destination folder is pre-defined and is a static destination or else is >>> picked up from a specific set of data when the XO connects to the XS). >>> But that does not solve the problem that, outside rich countries, there >>> simply be no printer or resources to follow through. >>> >>> Yama >>> >>> Martin Langhoff wrote: >>>> Paper, ink and printer time are >>>> extremely valuable. >>> >>>> So far we have not built anything yet to share handle limited >>>> resources across users yet -- and doing it across something so lumpy >>>> as printing resources it going to be an interesting exercise in >>>> building social software. >>> >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> Server-devel mailing list >>> [EMAIL PROTECTED] <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >>> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel >> >> >> >> -- >> Jeff Brown >> >> Cell: 074-101 5170 / Fax: 086-532 3508 >> >> Masimanyane Mussel Rehabilitation and >> Masande Nursery ~ Nutritional Projects >> C O F F E E B A Y ~ W I L D C O A S T >> >> ++ >> >> Website: www.wildcoast.com <http://www.wildcoast.com> >> Blog: www.wildcoast.com/jeff <http://www.wildcoast.com/jeff> >> >> 8< -- >> Do not believe in miracles -- rely on them. >> >> >> > _______________________________________________ > Sugar mailing list > Sugar@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar > -- Walter Bender Sugar Labs http://www.sugarlabs.org _______________________________________________ Sugar mailing list Sugar@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/sugar