1) 18.6 year spirals: From reading various websites online concerning the Sun Daggers, it seems that the moon relation was never even considered until a photographer was developing a photo. He noticed two other marks--very faint-- that no one had noticed while viewing the petroglyph in person. After noticing the two lines, it was deduced that they were consistent with the maximum and minimum elevation of the moon in it's travels through the sky. My perspective is that the Sun Daggers related to daytime could have been coincidence, but other markings related to the moon make it much more likely that it isn't a coincidence.
2) Astronomical observatories: I feel these were observations of the Sun and Moon from a primitive perspective. I myself have been using my fist as an approximation of 10 degrees to keep a record (in my head) of how far south the Sun is rising and setting each day. I do believe that the homes, petroglyphs, and even the beliefs of the Native Americans in the Southwest supports the claim that they observed rising and setting, as well as the solstices and equinoxes, without use of observatories. "The Winter House of the Sun" can be directly tied to observations of the rising and setting of the Sun at Winter Solstice.
2) The motion of the Sun Daggers. From what I've read online, the daggers of light are not observed near sunrise or sunset, but when the Sun is near meridian. This is consistent with the stated observations. Also, it is stated that there is an overhang that blocks the Sun at certain times of year.
"A large rock overhang situated above the site shades the slabs when the sun's elevation climbs to high as it does in the summer months."
The overhand would block the sun's light daggers at certain times, and the angle of the Sun would determine the daggers location. Looking at the photo at the top of this page:
Qoute from previous e-mail"
"My problem is that this description is not consistent with the statements associating the horizontal position of the dagger with various times of year. If there were a thin slit facing east or west, then I could understand the dagger at the moment of sunrise or sunset being farther left or right depending on the time of year, but with a thick slit facing south, the dagger should appear and disaapear every day at positions determined by the geometry of the slit, independent of the height of the sun. Is there a higher order effect I am neglecting? (An alternative is that the photographers are taking the pictures that look most like what they want to see.)"
Another geometric angle to consider:
It seems that the petroglyph is not directly opposite the slits, as I first assumed. Rather the petroglyph is almost ast a right angle. This would also explain why the sun daggers disappear after a short time. The angle of the Sun after that time doesn't allow for any light to reach the surface on which the petroglyph is located.
The photo at top of the linked page makes me feel certain that the petroglyph was intentionall drawn to represent the location of the Sun in the sky. I do feel that the observations were elementary, and not scientific. These Native Americans would have been observing and recording on a basic level akin to setting out rocks in a medicine wheel. They would not be considering the 18.6 year cycle as such. They would merely be observing where the moon was, and that its position was cyclic.
It would only take one lifetime to make such observations. And the "medicine men" (I don't know the proper terminology for these People) would hand their observations on to the next generation orally and my using the petroglyphs. I think it very likely and believable that these medicine men would watch and record such things.
Albert
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
In einer eMail vom 27.11.2003 00:52:04 Westeurop”ische Normalzeit schreibt [EMAIL PROTECTED]:
In regards to the spiral representing 18.6 years (and not 18.5 or some other close number), I believe the answer is that the observations are directly tied to the 18.6 year cycle. So, if the observations were properly recorded, the spiral would indeed represent 18.6 years.
Albert Franco
Do you see why I'm uncomfortable with the reasoning here? Somebody finds a spiral and counts 18 or 19 rings and asks if that could mean something. Somebody else points out that it could be related to the 18.6 year lunar cycle. A third person hears there are 18.6 rings and thinks, that can't be a coincidence that there are *exactly* the same number of rings as in the lunar cycle. That *proves* that they knew about it and created this site to commemorate it. It gets even worse because to clearly differentiate! between an 18.6 and and 18.7 year cycle would require thousands of years of observations, so suddenly we have a civilization on a par with the Egyptians, capable of passing on astronomical observations for a hundred generations. And all that based on a washed out spiral that might have 18 or maybe 19 or even 20 rings, depending of whether that depression is part of the petroglyph or just a rough place in the rock.
--Art Carlson
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