I'd think the sixth admendment (protection from unreasionable search and seizure) helps people get away with crimes all the time. Should we ditch that too? ~Paul
On Thu, 05 Aug 2004 11:55:58 -0400 (EDT), [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Ignorance is not a defense and nor should it be. If it was it would be almost > impossible to arrest anyone. All you would need to do is have someone ask you to do > it beforehand. > Someone asks you to hold their box of drugs. Oh but you didn't know what was in the > box it must be a big mistake. > Someone asks you to help him into his locked house. Oh but you didn't know that it > wasn't his house. > Someone asks you to hide him from the cops. I guess it's alright because you didn't > know he committed a crime. > If you allow people to hide behind the fact that they simply didn't know with 100% > certainty that what they were doing was a crime no one would ever be guilty. It's > called personal responsibility, if your doing something it's up to you to ensure its > legal. > > Someone that has drug deals happen in his yard does have a defense. He didn't let > them. If he had said 'Sure come on in and use my yard to deal drugs' (like when you > run a freenet node) then he would be guilty. > Ignoring an obvious crime is not a crime, you can watch someone get shot and killed > if you wanted. Ignoring your obvious crime however is quite punishable. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Thursday, August 05, 2004 5:30 AM > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: [freenet-support] (no subject) > Importance: Low > > On 5 Aug 2004 04:42:44 > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]| ("Matthew Findley") writes > > | Let me see if I can get caught up on whats gone on since I left work. > | First I should probably clear this up. I am not a lawyer. I work at the > | U.S. Attoreny's Office yes; but, only as a clerk. So nothing I say is > | legal advice, the postion of the DOJ, to be considered an offical > | interpretation of the laws, ect.... > > In other words, you were reprimanded at work for stirring up shit from an > @usdoj.gov email address and now it's time to interject the disclaimers. > If you weren't yet, you will be. I've been in a similar position, though > not quite exactly the same, I made the same mistake, using a uniform email > address in a civilian conversation, and I've felt the heat for it. > > On the one hand, I sympathize with you. Why would Anonymous issue an > apology? Because even Anonymous can and perhaps will be identified via > linguistic analysis, though I've done my best to pervert this message in > such a manner that it cannot be connected with its author. On the other > hand, I must assert that whomever initiated or will initiate the stink, it > didn't start or won't start with me. Although, believe me, I have > considered it since your first post to this list from an official address, > and long before the current thread was borne. > > You go on to state > > | Let me put it this way. When you all fire up your nodes you know there > | is a very strong likelyhood that it will end up houseing and transmiting > | illegal material, correct? > > I would ask "Who is 'you all'?" and I would posit that the response is not > 'correct.' (I would also insert a 'you people' and 'H Perot' reference, > but that would be controversial and too demonstrable of knowledge of U.S. > politics, no?) > > Freenet is comprised of a wide variety of users. Many of those users whom > have been and continue to remain early adopters of Freenet are those same > people what were and continue to be early adopters of other emerging > technologies. They're in it for the tech, they're in it for the ideals, > they're in it to support the ability of oppressed citizenries (I must > wonder if that now applies to you in the States?) to have the continued > freedom to express their ideas. And for fuck's sakes, some of them are > just in it for the challenge of programming something new in Java. > > More to a point, there are Freenet node operators what have no idea that > they may end up storing or transmitting illicit material. There are > Freenet node operators what have been convinced by acquaintances to try out > a new software program, one which is at the bleeding edge of networking, > one which hopes to offer anonymity to its users, and what have installed > Freenet to this very end. There are Freenet node operators what run a node > but don't make any use of its existance. There are Freenet node operators > what run a node simply because they have a machine with a nice linkup and a > friend what asked a favor of them. > > You made a statement > > | The fact is that everyone knows there lots of illegal stuff floating > | around freenet, and one can simply not avoid responsibility for a > | crime by deliberately ignoring what is obvious. > > Although I'm not under your jurisdiction, I live in a country what seems to > have a keen and cooperative eye on what the States consider to be the > latest incarnation of Truth and Justice. As such this statement makes my > skin crawl on its end. Even more so that it was made from an official of > the Department of U.S. Justice. > > You are saying that a resident of a disadvantaged community has no defense > that a drugs deal was committed in his yard, because he knows what there > are drugs dealers floating around his community, and thus he can't avoid > responsibility for the crime by ignoring the obvious. You're saying that, > by ignoring the obvious, the bystander has committed a crime. Would this > not incriminate everyone what lives in a disadvantaged community? Drat, > forgot, the States has imprisoned a higher percentage of its population > than any other country around. > > Your messages Mr. Findley make me worried, but not for Freenet. Your > messages make me worried for the internet at large and for what the United > States intends to bring upon it. > > _______________________________________________ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > _______________________________________________ > Support mailing list > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support > Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support > Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] > _______________________________________________ Support mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://news.gmane.org/gmane.network.freenet.support Unsubscribe at http://dodo.freenetproject.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/support Or mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
