Dont forget "interactive" and "gesture based" Phi.... On 17 August 2017 at 19:06, Phi Shu <phi...@gmail.com> wrote:
> Just curious, why do you want to do a PhD at all? are you planning on being > an academic? > > Also, you seem to be in a muddle with all the labels and text book > definitions you are citing. The whole sound versus music thing (be it sonic > arts, sound art, electroacoustic music, acousmatic music etc. etc.) forget > all that nonsense, it's a trap. Follow that path and like it or not you > will always be distracted by having to pander to either academic or 'art > world' gatekeepers. All these silly little boxes people want to put things > in are a distraction. Focus on what you want to say artistically, what you > want to express, don't get wrapped up in trying to make it fit within a > preexisting frame. > > Oh, and if you are bent on making a PhD proposal, stick "embodied" in there > somewhere, it's still trending....and "immersive experience" is sexy now > too, money being thrown at that > <http://www.ahrc.ac.uk/funding/opportunities/current/ > research-and-partnership-development-call-for-the-next- > generation-of-immersive-experiences/> > . > > On Thu, Aug 17, 2017 at 1:40 PM, 霖の <951343...@qq.com> wrote: > > > Thank you very much :) And there are couple of things I'd like to say: > > I agree with both of you and Thank you very much.. The proposal , I don't > > know how specific should it be.... And one of the problem is exactly what > > Augustine has mentioned, practice led to research. In that case, the > > objects... is more like a train of thought rather than just propose some > > problems for future research. I'm afraid that will limit the creation as > > well. So.. how to write a decent proposal really confuse me. > > > > > > About the term, sound-based composition. It is academic.. at first time, > I > > used electroacoustics. However, as I hope to combine club electronic > music > > style with electroacoustic music, experiment music and so on...The > purpose > > is to have both aesthetic value and art value. Sound is a quite potential > > sources and it is also the future of music, that's why I'm not rejected > to > > use this term...For composition, as sound and electronic music is quite > > different from traditional music. Composers , always are audio engineer > as > > well. And when we study sound composition, we also need to learn > > psychoacoustics so that we will know what we are doing exactly. Besides, > > combine club electronic means extract some approaches or ideas from it, > and > > with principles, those sound works will be more humanization and > > interesting rather than serious all the time. There are many people have > > tried to find a more humanization way to present those art works, > > combination is one of a choice. > > > > > > About the visual cues, I've read some paper write by audiovisual artists. > > To them, audio cues and visual cues are oneness rather than one dominate > > another. What I referred here is human always percept the world with all > > senses, even in dark room, they still keep using every senses which is > > intuitive. If artists use those principles to create sth special, that > > would be interesting and innovation. But indeed, sound always provided > > informations that visual cues cannot present. That's also a interesting > > point to be research. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------ Original ------------------ > > From: "Peter Lennox";<p.len...@derby.ac.uk>; > > Date: Thu, Aug 17, 2017 04:42 PM > > To: "Surround Sound discussion group"<sursound@music.vt.edu>; > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > > > > > The motion bounce illusion, where application of an audible transient > > alters the visual conclusion, from two circles passing through each > other, > > to a perception of them 'bouncing' off each other, is a good example of > > audio altering visual perception. > > > > it would be simplistic to say that one sense 'dominates' the other, since > > the real point lies in the comparative robustness of cues -the sense with > > the best signal-to-noise ratio is likely to dominate in particular > > instances. > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education > > > > School of Arts > > > > > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk<mailto:p.len...@derby.ac.uk> > > > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > > > > > University of Derby, > > Kedleston Road, > > Derby, > > DE22 1GB, UK > > > > ________________________________ > > From: Sursound <sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu> on behalf of Augustine > > Leudar <augustineleu...@gmail.com> > > Sent: 16 August 2017 22:14:46 > > To: Surround Sound discussion group > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > This is true too Dave - I know of one audio cue in particular (to do > with a > > football bouncing off a wall) that can alter the way you see the way the > > ball moves - Ill have to dig it out. It really sucks being a sound artist > > sometimes ! oh so you're an audio guy.... What's a sound artist ? What > like > > a sound engineer ? or a sound designer ? ooohhhhh a jumped up button > pusher > > with delusions of grandeur........ > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 20:06, Dave Malham <dave.mal...@york.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > I, too, agree with Augustine. A point though that I would make, on the > > side > > > so to speak, is, do not assume that visual cues always override audio > > ones. > > > It is quite common for visual arts people to assume that the visual > > > overrules everything else but, although not as common, audio > perceptions > > > can override visual ones at times. Anyway, good luck with your phd. > > > > > > Dave > > > > > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 15:29, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> wrote: > > > > > > > Wot he said... > > > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education > > > > School of Arts > > > > > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > > > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > > > > > University of Derby, > > > > Kedleston Road, > > > > Derby, > > > > DE22 1GB, UK > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > > > > Augustine Leudar > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 15:25 > > > > To: Surround Sound discussion group <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > > Subject: Re: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > > > > > As you probably know visual and other cognitive cues often override > > audio > > > > cues (see wallachs amazing cylinder experiment from 1940). I like to > > play > > > > with peoples minds in my installations and create illusions with > sound > > - > > > > but these can be massively aided by the careful manipulation of > > cognitive > > > > and visual cues - for me for example the choice of location and how > it > > > > looks is just as much a compositional decision as the choice of > sounds, > > > > every sensory experience people have from the sight of a speaker, to > > the > > > > smell of the environment will have an associated meaning for > listeners > > > and > > > > effect how they hear things, and how believable the world you are > > trying > > > to > > > > transport them to is.. > > > > Cognitive cues are massively influential on how we hear and > experience > > > the > > > > world - from branding to deciding one person has something more > > important > > > > to say because you know their name, etc etc - you can completely > > override > > > > audio cues - or massively enhance them if you are clever in their > use. > > > > However I would suggest practice led research for this kind of > project > > - > > > I > > > > have heard so many things that sound very good on paper but dont > > actually > > > > work - to really add to the body of human knowledge I would say do it > > the > > > > other way round here - find out what works then write about it. > > > > There are loads of really interesting avenues of research in this > > topic - > > > > from intepoliation in HRTF data sets to various applications in VR. > > > > Although not sound based there is research for example in VR - you > put > > a > > > > headset on and walk in a room - you think you are walking in a > straight > > > > line but actually you are walking in a curve - the research is > > > determining > > > > how far visual cues can foll haptic ones, how much of a curve can you > > get > > > > away with.... There are many audio equivelants to this "curve". > .....I > > am > > > > also involved in sound sculpture but not perhaps in the way you mean > - > > I > > > > make actual sculptures with sonics bult into them - I like technology > > to > > > be > > > > hidden for the aforementioned cognitive reasons- I also do a lot of > > > > installations in natural environments that integrate psychoacoustic > and > > > > cognitive research (such as the cocktail party effect and precedence > > > etc) . > > > > I can send you some papers I wrote on using these cues in sound > > > > installation and theatre if you PM me. I also would be wary of terms > > like > > > > "sound based music" it sounds like pure academese - I understand the > > > > importance of academic writing style you have the potential to write > an > > > > interesting research project and create a great portfolio which > > actually > > > is > > > > clever and doesnt need to obscure its content with unnecessary > esoteric > > > > language . My advice would be to follow your passion and not let > > yourself > > > > get led into something you're not really that interested in or that > > makes > > > > your supervisor feel safer - to finish you will need to be really > > > engaged. > > > > > > > > On 16 August 2017 at 13:45, Peter Lennox <p.len...@derby.ac.uk> > wrote: > > > > > > > > > You probably have a supervisor, so I wouldn't want to interfere. > > > > > But it seems to me that your main aim is too broad, too vague. You > > > > > seem to be saying something like "the perception of music partly > > > > > relies on processes (neural, cognitive and psychological) that > exist > > > > > for other than musical reasons - so how can this principle be > applied > > > > > to enrich music and sound art?" > > > > > - but of course, composers have always done this. Take the > principle > > > > > of "intuitive physics" (1993: 'Intuitive Physics', in Eilan, > McCarthy > > > > > and Brewer, (eds.), Problems in the Philosophy and Psychology of > > > > > Spatial Representation; 99-112) - then compare "flight of the > bumble > > > > > bee" with Prokoviev's "Dance of the Knights" (a track on Romeo and > > > > > Juliet) - you can hear that they rely on extra-musical associations > > > > > about size (mass) and therefore momentum, and the sorts of movement > > > > > (acceleration, change of > > > > > direction) that might be expected for beings of differing masses. > > > > > (Also have a listen to Tomita's electronic renditions of Debussey) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > On the notion of sound sculpture, there are many artists interested > > in > > > > > this - for example, The Morning Line (https://www.youtube.com/ > > > > > watch?v=gipLCJr94Sg ) > > > > > > > > > > So, you have a very interesting topic area, and one in which much > is > > > > > not known (an exciting area for research, then). But this stage, of > > > > > formulating a coherent proposal, is very hard work. Simplicity is > the > > > > > key - trying to be really clear (to yourself) what it is you want > to > > > > > know. That's a problem that all academics wrestle with, all their > > > lives. > > > > > Good luck! > > > > > > > > > > Dr. Peter Lennox SFHEA > > > > > Senior Lecturer in Perception > > > > > College of Arts, Humanities and Education School of Arts > > > > > > > > > > e: p.len...@derby.ac.uk > > > > > t: 01332 593155 > > > > > > > > > > https://derby.academia.edu/peterlennox > > > > > https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Lennox > > > > > > > > > > University of Derby, > > > > > Kedleston Road, > > > > > Derby, > > > > > DE22 1GB, UK > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: Sursound [mailto:sursound-boun...@music.vt.edu] On Behalf Of > > ?? > > > > > Sent: 16 August 2017 12:33 > > > > > To: sursound <sursound@music.vt.edu> > > > > > Subject: [Sursound] Sound Based Composition(surround) > > > > > > > > > > Thanks for reply. It is really helpful. > > > > > The term I used , according to Landy's writing : typically > designated > > > > > the art form in which the sound is the basic unit. > > > > > I'm thinking about it and developed main question and sub > > > > > questions,here is a brief description : > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > 1 The study purpose and sub-questions > > > > > 1.1 Main Purpose > > > > > For the perception mechanism of human being, every part of the > outer > > > > > world is affecting the final cognition. Thus, as sound-based music, > > > > > the sources may naturally have extra-musical information. How to > use > > > > > that information appropriately to create artwork so that it could > > > > > arouse people's association and extra-musical experiences? And, How > > to > > > > > combine it with other art forms and effectively creates interesting > > > > perception experiences? > > > > > > > > > > 1.2 Perception > > > > > For receiving and processing, sensory system will be used and > worked > > > > > together all the time. For artwork creation, including sound-based > > > > > music composition, would it possible to break the typical > perception > > > > > habit or used it to create artwork according to perception > > principles? > > > > > 1.3Cognition > > > > > In this part, the research question focus on cognition process > > > > > (understanding through thought, experience, and existing knowledge, > > > > etc.). > > > > > In the light of above theory, if sound-based music or audiovisual > > > > > artwork could follow the path of cognition process, will it creates > > > > > fantastic artwork that brings abundant information even dramatic > > > > > experiences? For example, using symbolic melody, lyrics or sound > with > > > > > special meaning, and composed them appropriately, it would be act > > like > > > > > "access tools" (Leigh Landy, 2007: 27) and enhance the experiences > to > > > > > audiences and assist them understand the work more easily. Thus, > > > > > people will focus on experience the feelings or interact with > > artworks > > > > > rather than struggle with questions like what is going on here. > > > > > 1.4 Development > > > > > To develop the research ideas basis on psychoacoustics and > cognitive > > > > > psychology mentioned above, when combining the sound-based artwork > > > > > with other forms of art, will innovations happen by this > combination? > > > > > 1.5 Sound sculpture > > > > > As mention above, sound sculpture basis on sound-based music. > > > > > Essentially, music is trying to transmit experiences to audiences, > so > > > > > how about creating sound sculpture? It is like the natural world > > > > > presented to us: when we come into a place, we will hear and see > the > > > > > surroundings and then understand what has happened here, so as > "sound > > > > sculpture" mentioned here. > > > > > As I'm new to write proposal, what is the essential elements to > form > > a > > > > > research object and how specific should it be? I'm going to > > manipulate > > > > > the principles and compose serious of artworks . Then extract the > > > > > result to form a final dissertation. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Thank you very much, > > > > > Yilin > > > > > -------------- next part -------------- An HTML attachment was > > > > > scrubbed... > > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > > > attachments/20170816/192f16ff/attachment.html> > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > > > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. > > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the > > > > > sender and let them know. > > > > > > > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > > > > here, edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > Dr. Augustine Leudar > > > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > > > Company Number : NI635217 > > > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > > > Belfast BT88LL > > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > > attachments/20170816/c71e43d4/attachment.html> > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > The University of Derby has a published policy regarding email and > > > > reserves the right to monitor email traffic. > > > > If you believe this was sent to you in error, please reply to the > > sender > > > > and let them know. > > > > > > > > Key University contacts: http://www.derby.ac.uk/its/contacts/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > Sursound mailing list > > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > > here, > > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > As of 1st October 2012, I have retired from the University. > > > > > > These are my own views and may or may not be shared by the University > > > > > > Dave Malham > > > Honorary Fellow, Department of Music > > > The University of York > > > York YO10 5DD > > > UK > > > > > > 'Ambisonics - Component Imaging for Audio' > > > -------------- next part -------------- > > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > > attachments/20170816/5f326f14/attachment.html> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > Sursound mailing list > > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - unsubscribe > here, > > > edit account or options, view archives and so on. > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > Dr. Augustine Leudar > > Artistic Director Magik Door LTD > > Company Number : NI635217 > > Registered 63 Ballycoan rd, > > Belfast BT88LL > > -------------- next part -------------- > > An HTML attachment was scrubbed... > > URL: <https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/private/sursound/ > > attachments/20170816/46e24dc3/attachment.html> > > _______________________________________________ > > Sursound mailing list > > Sursound@music.vt.edu > > https://mail.music.vt.edu/mailman/listinfo/sursound - 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