Bob George wrote: > Day Brown wrote: > >> [...] There seems to be some kind of planned obsolescence at work. >> None of the Linux distros prior to 7 will logon either... Mandrake, >> Suse, BSD, Slackware, Redhat, and Caldera all installed and booted >> the system, but wont logon. Redhat 8 will, and so will Corel and >> Xandros. > > > The software YOU have configured on the older distributions needs to > be either updated, or replaced with more modern equivalents that > support whatever feature it is your ISP requires. That's hardly > planned obsolescense, it's called the passage of time. Things DO > change. Get used to it: That Oldsmobile you bought in 1963 may not > have seatbelts and emissions control, even though they're required by > law now. You MUST have them to drive the vehicle legally. It's hardly > a grand conspiracy.
Actually, I have a 1948 Dodge, which is completely legal on any US highway. And- fully functional; like a 486, it can get me from one place to another. Your comments dont seem to sort out the diff between the pleasures of the GUI multimedia interface, and the *essential* critical app power of ASCII, which is what this message is. Perhaps I was not clear. I am not saying to abandon the GUI. But I am saying that to have to *rely* on it to do email and/or download applications to solve your GUI problems, just makes no sense. Nor is it a moral issue; no evil plot. Microsoft is trying to monopolize the system. It is a for-profit transnational corporation, that is what it instinctively wants to do. I just dont see any reason that we users should go along with that. And what alternatives we have, the simpler they are, the more bullet proof the system. Which if you wrote assembly language, you would instinctively understand. If however, your professional position is based on network management of increasingly complex multimedia communications, then this kind of simplification reduces your intellectual turf. On the one hand, since you seem in doubt, Microsoft has the 'plot'. The Linux distros are just responding to it, but in doing so, also increase their own profitability/viability by increasing the intellectual turf they create by developing strategies to cope with sabotage software and SPAM. sO- they dont want to solve the problems, they want to milk them... rather than going back to a hardware/network configuration based on simpler software with less eye candy that is, like the DOS/FIDO networks, harder to hack into in the first place. There's no reason you cant use 8N1 rather than the internet 7 bit to maintain a connection with a remote host... and receive multimedia data to be processed by your GUI terminals, but still have a home server that does just one thing well. transfer data so that come hell or high water, you can still get advice from places like this on how to solve problems. > > > However, you do NOT have to upgrade to a full new linux distribution > to get these capabilities. Only the required package (ppp presumably) > must be updated. Not a big deal, but you have to figure out how to do > it. Same as using DOS. I didnt find it to be the same as DOS; but then again, the distro CD comes with so much more that the need to download anything is uncommon. Like I said, I ran into problems. But I dont really care if it is the PPP driver, or the lack of flash functionality or whatever in Netscape 4.7; it was just gonzo easier to buy a new distro install CD for ten bucks or whatever, rather than spending my time trying to track down the source of the problems. Looking back, I can see that every couple years I hadda upgrade dos; from 2.1 to 2.7 to 3.2 to 3.3 to 3.31 to 5, 6, & 7. And if I got to run Corel for 2-3 years before problems begin to show up, that's not too bad. Likewise, I find the upgrade process easier, in part because, just as with dos, people who were creating the install documentation and scripts, became more familiar with what ordinary users needed. The learning curve with my first distro, Redhat 5.2, was just as bad as changing from Apple ][+ to the PC. Because I am somewhat of a hot solker hacker, I've saved money on oddball components in the gray market, which the Redhat PNP did not recognize. But then, when I got Mandrake 7, it all worked right outta the box. (except the video driver) And whereas all Redhat gave me was an 'Installation manual' whereas Mandrake included a 'user manual' as well in their box, I saw a lotta progress. But I down graded the SVGA card for the video. And the next improvement I saw was Corel, whose driver set was much more complete, and could even run a UW SCSI card that neither Mandrake, nor the downloaded Tekram 'UW 395' driver would see. Much less run. And like Corel, the Xandros install is so simple even a greenhorn windoz user could do it. There is progress, the notorious steep learning curve is leveling out. But now, we see the sabotage software and SPAM problems which are increasing complexity with no end in sight. It begins to look less like Computer tape and more like Mandarin Red tape all the time. There are lots of Mandarin minds that instinctively welcome the complexity that empowers them to be in a position to assist others to function, and relatively few who wonder if there is not a way to simplify the system to improve reliability and security. > Now just get a significant population to go along, and you'll have > something useful! Let us know how it turns out. But at 5 minutes a day > at dial-up speeds, I wouldn't expect to be doing a whole lot. You're > SENDING MAIL and NOT exactly "surfing the Internet." Oh sure. but why would I risk the power to do email, not have a backup system? >> Has anyone tried this kind of thing to get here? > > Yes, the entire world did. Not that I have seen, 'here' meaning this list. >> In any case, as LD prices continue to fall, I can see a 24/7 plan >> (that includes data) could emerge > > From who, the long distance companies? You'll notice that the Internet > that you're trying to bypass is increasingly being used by the very > same long distance carriers you seem to be suddenly championing. From whoever has the connectivity; a 'user union' just like a 'labor union', a 'credit union' or a COOP electric power company. The information highway might should be a public utility just like the interstates are, and just like the interstates, we limit the ability of entrepeneurs to use the public space to intrude on our awareness of traffic conditions. I bring this up here, because folks here understand more about what the minimum amount of power and driveability are needed to use to get where they wanna go. If you wanna spend the money on an SUV or a high speed sportscar, that's ok with me, but I should still be able to get in line with a motorcycle. > Day: If you really were interested in doing what you describe, it can > be done using any linux distribution and the uucp software suite. It > is designed for "store and forward" messaging, and was how email and > usenet news were tranferred for years between networks. It works fine > over dial-up, and I was part of the "entire" Internet back in 1987 > this way, with the ability to transfer mail to anywhere in the world > for the cost of a local call. It has also ALREADY been adapted by the > ham radio crowd, so again, if you're really interested in doing > something, IT'S BEEN DONE ALREADY. And legally, in compliance with the > FCC and other regulatory bodies world-wide. Whatever I do is trivial compared to what I expect other geeks will do as the RF hardware prices fall. Non compliance with FCC regulations is already going on... and the FCC is already turning a blind eye, just as they did with CB radio. Much of the network sabotage is driven by the same kind of rebellious independent spirit, from geeky teens trying to do pranks, to Armageddonites trying to fulfil prophecy like electronic Kazinsky cases. It aint only a technological or software problem, it is sociological pathology allied with a deep distrust of centralized forms of power. They are already figuring out how to monkey with the cellular system.
