Hi Andrew and All,
--- Andrew <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Terry,
> You are not confusing the issue with facts, you
> bring up some good
> ones.
I'll go with Terry on hydrogen's eff overall.
> Electricity is not free, it's got to be generated
> somewhere, and if
> you want to use it in a portable device, you've got
> to store it on
> board. Batteries, frankly suck.
What sucks is the cost/ weight/ size of storing
H2.
Batteries are availible that are cost effective,
deep cycle lead acid and ni-cad. What sucks about
batteries is the vehicles they have been put in.
A well designed EV can have a range of up to 200
miles with ni-cads that last 20 + years. The ni-cads I
use on my e-bike are over 25 years old and work great
putting out 50 amps out of a 14 hr battery pack. After
mearsuring them they put out 15 to 17 amp hrs still.
So much for short lived battery packs. Over 20 years
this works out to 1.5 to 2 cents/ mile with
electricity about the same.
Good old golf cart batteries will only cost about
20 % less over 20 years. More packs but less money
each. 3 to 8 year life depending on abuse.
If you need to go farther a 7.5 to 10kw genorator
gives you unlimited range.
What's your fuel cost? Is it anywhere near as clean
and cheap as off-peak electricity? Batteries will take
you twice as far as a fuel cell on the same input
energy.
As soon as I figure out how to build a wood
distiller I'll be making my electricity from biomass
to charge my EV dropping fuel cost to time needed.
> Even the cutting
> edge designs will
> only last a few years before you have to replace
> them at great cost
> both financially and environmentally.
People who play cutting edge get cut then whine.
While new things look impressive they usually turn out
to be hype. Use proven batteries.
Batteries are the recycling sucess story with 97%
recycled. Ev battery pack recycling will be almost
100% .
> When you
> reclaim the stored
> energy in your hydrogen thru a fuel cell, all you
> get is water. And
> you can then convert this water back to hydrogen and
> oxygen.
If you put in 3X the energy as you get out of the
H2 back thru the fool cell,opps, I mean fuel cell. A
natural gas motor( methane) running a generator would
put out almost twice the kilowatts for the same nat
gas, methane at a much lower cost available now.
Fuel cells are alright but cost too much . What
is even worse is the other things that a fuel cell
needs to run which are never shown in the pictures.
Which is to bad because it's easy to convert
biomass to H2 by distilling biomass at 1600F. The gas
will be over 60% H2. 1000F gives you mostly methane.
> Liquid N2 is also an intriguing energy storage
> medium, since the
> energy is provided by the ambient temp of the
> surroundings boiling
> the N2 to create pressure that can drive your axels
> directly; no
> combustion at all! You put energy into the system
> when you compress
> the N2 originally.
This jewel is even worse than anything at under
10% eff and a nasty habit of being blocked by ice any
where but death valley in a heat wave.
jerry dycus
> -andrew
> --- In biofuel@egroups.com, "biofuels" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > Problem is, it takes energy to produce the
> hydrogen in the first
> place - by
> > electrolysis, about 1.3 times the energy produced.
> Then it takes
> another
> > 0.3 times to compress it into portable property,
> which makes it
> only 62%
> > energy efficient.
> >
> > Which begs the question - why not use the
> electricity to do the job
> in the
> > first place? At greater efficiency!
> >
terry
>
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