> From: "Juan C. Bobeda" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > You convinced me, how do I get one of your $10.00 misters? Better yet, send me 2 > (one for my wife, then I can see what happens when I remove it from her car...).
will contact you off list, juan, we're close enough to each other. > Will the mister work with diesels? no, the diesel mister is a different ball game. i'm presently testing one in my massey 165 tractor. so far it shows great promise, and greater fuel savings than the gas (petrol) ic engine mister. soon as it's properly tried and tested, i'll post it. ------------------------------------------- > From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > yes, if we measure things using the right units. > > > Ahhhhh... you just said the magic words :) bless your heart (or maybe > I mean mind) used to teach physics way back. units and measurements were the big stumbling block then. they still are. nasa missed a planet because of a unit conversion mistake, remember ? we exchange concepts through words, and tangible data through units. words express feelings (Aristotle = explicit implies implicit), units express facts. not everybody is comfortable with facts. they leave little room for maneuvering !!! > High temps in an engine, but nothing even remotely close to what > you'd need for fusion. (cold fusion was one of those bad experiments > that missed the crucial element of repeatability, even by the > original "discoverers" of the effect)I think we can safely rule that > out. don't rule anything out, andrew !! else you couldn't explain superconductivity at high (relative) temps... prevailing mindset calls for fusion to be somehow associated with heat, plasma, magnetic baskets, etc. but it wouldn't be the first time great minds are immersed in great confusion, and generate great conceptual mistakes. lots of people out there fighting evolution, or claiming there is no global warming... > As far as water splitting and then later recombining, this could > happen, but even under the most ideal circumstances, you still can't > get back more than you put in (darn laws of thermodynamics!) true enough ! but we don't know how or with what it recombines, right ? ic engines are notoriously inefficient, we feed them all sorts of energy, and get very little back. friction, inertia, and temperature alone do not explain this waste. so maybe it's a bit like making biodiesel, you put more alcohol in just to make sure the reaction is complete. and we put in more fuel into an ic, to be sure we obtain the required power. personally, i'd hold that these devices optimize combustion. how, i don't know. and do i dare mention adsorption ? (:-D) > Another possibility I heard mentioned on this list once was that the > added water at the combustion temps is pretty high pressure steam, > and since there is plenty of extra heat around you can make that > steam essentially free of charge and add this extra pressure to > pushing the cylinder. This also seems to make sense to me as a > possible mechanism. Part ICE, part steam engine. plausible. except the amounts of steam would be so minute as to be almost negligible. one liter of water every 5-600 kilometers is no great amount of water. you'd get more than that if ambient humidity changed from 60 to 90 %. and it wouldn't explain the increase in net power when you inject h into the mixture. comment: a few of my 'clients' have remarked that driving with the mister on reminds them of the smooth driving associated with 'just after rain' conditions, when ambient humidity is at its max. > I push the explanation end, not because I doubt, but because I'm a > scientist (inquisitive) and an engineer and once you know exactly how > and why something works you can modify it intelligently to optimize > the effect. wish we could do that with pols and corporate animals... > From: "NBT - E. Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I have missed some of this discussion, but am wondering about possible > corrosion effects of added moisture in the cylinder and into lubricating > oil over time? no more corrosion or water in the oil, than you'd have operating in a humid ambient. water misting keeps everything factory new clean, including spark plugs. oil use goes down, pointing to better sealing of rings. we are misting minute amounts of water into the air/fuel mixture, and not injecting water into the cylinders. that would be a different scenario. > From: "David Teal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > I did make a mister (Novak's baby) for my 2,8 liter Vauxhall Royale petrol > car. It probably works too well and consumes a liter of water/ethanol mix > in a few miles. that would be the alcohol, david. had that happen to me a couple of times, shallow containers, and high alky/water mixes, and the darn thing would foam into the engine. the container should be kept half full, measured from the outlet tube level inside the container : outlet tube (to ic engine) level------------(irrespective of container lid level) max water level ------------- bottom of container ------------- (also air-in stone level) > It also makes the engine race in neutral, so I put a valve > in the suction line to reduce the flow rate. you might also have a too large id diameter hose. i use 4 mm max. when the engine speeds up at idle it means you're too lean. maybe your system is not airtight. your stone should bubble vigorously at idle, and reduce its bubbling rate as rpm increase (vacuum drop). except in cars equipped with an 'idle' emission valve, in which case the stone does not bubble at idle, and starts to bubble only past the 1000 rpm or so cut off of the valve. your stone might be the wrong sort, or damaged. the stone is the heart of the system !!! > Dick, have you abandoned the original mix in favor of straight water? it doesn't freeze here. alcohol just complicates matters, and i could notice no difference. works fine with straight water. alky is mandatory if it freezes in your area. both eth and meth would work fine. 1/3 by volume should work most places. > From: "Bryan Fullerton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > That could be a problem if the vehicle was only used on short trips where it > never really got warm. but it does not take very long at 200 plus degrees to > vapor a little moisture out of the oil. Water will not sit long on a hot > engine.. hear, hear !! fully agree. and they are microscopic amounts anyways !!! stop-and go-cars always show internal corrosion in the engine, due to ambient humidity condensing inside the engine. the mister adds minute ammounts of water to the combustion chamber only, and unless you have severe blow problems (engine, that is), it should never even reach the oil. as i mentioned before, oil consumption drops, indicative of cleaner fire ring grooves, thus less blow-by or pump-up. > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > With all the renewed interest in water injection... you wouldn't be injecting water. more like adding supersaturated air to the fuel/air mixture. two different beasts altogether. big difference. > Has anyone tried this on diesel engines, maybe with a pump to provide pressure for injection? it'll work, but is not the ideal. with a pump it works better, and if you pressure mist in a 50/50 mix of alky/water it works even better. be prepared to mist in as much as 100 cc/hp/hr, if not more, of the 50/50 mix. and last but not least, a pump misting in step with engine rpm would work throughout the engine's torque curve, and not just at the low rpm end, which is what you get when you use engine vacuum to move the air through the stone. wish more people would try this, then we'd pool our experiences, and come up to speed...<sigh> good misting !! dick. ------------------------ Yahoo! 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