Hi Keith;
You must experiment with fermenting the boiled liquor extract from sugar cane -- not the pressed/expressed extract. The boiled extract contains so much more "minerals" -- you need add nothing -- not even yeast -- for a violent fermentation to start and run to completion. I mention a conservative 14% -- but if you optimize sugar levels -- it goes 16% or better. Boiling may sound energy intensive -- but it is not in the methology I use. "Pressure-Cooking" -- or extraction by heated, pressurized, water. Operating at 20 Psi -- 228 F -- for 3 hours. The water does not boil. you insulate/jacket the pot -- very little heat required to maintain temperature. I use a bucket in a jacketed drum to get back most of my invested heat when I transfer pots. Mind you -- I have to look at all this from village perspective -- no tractors -- no other machineries -- everything by hand. If I was "allowed" a few pieces of equipment -- which I have designed -- but probably will never build -- I could really make this process fly!! Pressurized Soxhlet extraction "tower" (steam) would extract large batches of pulverized cane (more on that process below) automatically to the proper sugar in liquor densities required for optimum fermentation. True -- this would be boiling and condensing -- so energy hungry -- but I planned to use a small refrigeration cycle power plant to condense -- and thus extract electrical power. The fuel for this process would be the bagasse. You can get a rough idea at: http://www.sterlingsolar.com/engines.htm Though the device I have in mind to build would be more efficient and simpler. Even the heat in the hot pressurized liquor -- on exiting -- would be recovered in this manner. The internal pressure of this process would also look after pumping liquor to the fermentation tanks. Also -- heat transferring from the Soxhlet extraction process -- could easily power the distillation process when required -- with energy still being picked up by the refrigeration cycle motor when condensing the alcohols. This then would be a inclosed system of great efficiency in ethanol from cane processing. Pulverizing cane The Mennonites here have developed an interesting device to pulverize cane to mix with their animal feeds -- they mix this up to 18% (by weight) with their regular grains. It is a Honda 10 HP belt driving a shaft with a regular lawn mower blade attached to one end -- the pulley to the other. This blade extends past a wooden table platform to be enclosed by an appropriate sized truck tire. The bottom part of this tire -- extending to the bottom -- is cut out. A 2 in square hole is cut into the side wall even with the table top. Motor is started. Cane is pushed in a rapid manner through this hole -- cane is pulverized and extracted from bottom. A very productive system for a minimum of machine power. Sure beats chopping cane by machete to short lengths and then splitting by machete! And of course -- the spent products of fermentation make a wonderful feed supplement as well! I try to always design for top efficiency -- in any process. We are not so energy rich here as you folks -- but you certainly can't tell that by looking how Belizeans live -- for them it is nothing but more waste of energy -- year by year -- they have adopted the true North American life style. Burn it all up today -- because tomorrow we all die! You might catch a few real good "hints" in all the above -- good luck to you in applying it. Peter Singfield Belize / Central America At 08:42 PM 7/11/2001 +0900, you wrote: >Hello Thomas > >>to keith, peter... >>i read the journey to forever / mothernatures pages about stills >>carefully and remember 20 years ago there was a state funded trial in >>our village on still with cereals, potatoes etc nearby munich/ bavaria >>to power their agricultural engines... >>just my opinion: >>its input is too high regarding the possible output (efficiency low >>-except you succeed to use wood, fibres to gain alcohol...) > >This is a myth Thomas, please see below. Ethanol from cellulose still >has some way to travel for truly efficient processes IMHO. > >"Wood-Ethanol Report: Technology Review", Environment Canada 1999 -- >good overview of the problem and the current solutions on offer. >http://www.pyr.ec.gc.ca/ep/wet/section16.html > >>and you >>often use food as fuel!! > >Another myth, I'm afraid - below. > >>to generate alcohol, suppose is viable only in >>regions wehere is huge surplus... >>sure woodgas is dirtier but more energy-efficient..., thomas >>-- >>der kleine deutsche oeko-pilz-anbauer \ >>the small german organic mushroomer http://www.biopilze.de/wir.htm >>le petit eco - champignoneur allemand / > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html#foodorfuel >Food or Fuel? >A common objection to biomass energy production is that it could >divert agricultural production away from food crops in a hungry world >-- even leading to mass starvation in the poor countries. > >True or not? Not true: at best it's an oversimplification of a >complex issue. It just doesn't work that way, and neither does hunger. > >[more] > >http://journeytoforever.org/ethanol_energy.html >Is ethanol energy-efficient? > >One of the most controversial issues relating to ethanol is the >question of what environmentalists call the "net energy" of ethanol >production. Simply put, is more energy used to grow and process the >raw material into ethanol than is contained in the ethanol itself? > >[more] > >There's another point here that's widely missed. Ethanol also has an >important role in biodiesel production: ethyl esters biodiesel is >cleaner and more rational than methyl esters biodiesel made with >methanol, which, unlike ethanol, is toxic, mostly derived from fossil >fuels, and you can't easily make it yourself. > >At any rate, very many people are making their own fuel ethanol on a >small scale, more all the time, all over the world. It especially >makes sense on-farm, where none of the energy-in vs energy-out >scenarios make a lot of sense. A lot of ethanol is also being made >from waste products, which never seem to get calculated. > >Best wishes > >Keith Addison > > >- >Gasification List Archives: >http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/ > >Gasification List Moderator: >Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, [EMAIL PROTECTED] >www.webpan.com/BEF > >Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html >- >Other Gasification Events and Information: >http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/ >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml >http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ > > - Gasification List Archives: http://www.crest.org/discussion/gasification/current/ Gasification List Moderator: Tom Reed, Biomass Energy Foundation, [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.webpan.com/BEF Sponsor the Gasification List: http://www.crest.org/discuss3.html - Other Gasification Events and Information: http://www.fsec.ucf.edu/bioam/ http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/gasref.shtml http://solstice.crest.org/renewables/biomass-info/ Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. 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