--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "steve spence" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
do you know what they are selling? reformers. they are using fossil fuels.
hydrogen isn't viable today, since there is no source of hydrogen that
provides a positive energy balance. It require more energy to extract than=
you get in the final product.
that may change in the future.
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (MikeF.) > writes: Steve, According to Jay Hanson bo=
th biofuels and hydrogen are unviable because they require more energy to ex=
tract than you get in the final product. They have a negative energy balance=
. Using wind/solar to generate hydrogen-from-water is a negative energy bala=
nce, but who cares ? Wind/solar are renewable and you can't put wind/sunshin=
e energy into your fuel tank. You can always charge an artificial battery wi=
th wind/sunshine, but you'll get no thrust. For these reasons the marketed-f=
or-home-use hydrogen generators (using water electrolysis) look viable to me=
. If you can't plug your 240v hydrogen generator directly into windmills/sol=
ar you can still use wind/solar, etc. to offset electric costs by having it =
feed directly into the grid. Please read the email below concerning hydrogen=
and the 2nd law of thermodynamics. MikeF. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] (Nichols,ĘCurt) Subject: RE: Jay Hanson : Mike,
Here's a quick answer to Jay's assertions. His point about the second law o=
f thermodynamics requiring more energy put in than can be taken out is accur=
ate. However it applies to ALL forms of energy, not just hydrogen. Coal, oil=
, natural gas, uranium, etc all have required more energy input than what we=
ever get out of them. The reason that we don't really worry about second la=
w limitations on these fuels is that we didn't put the energy in. Energy-int=
ensive natural actions over millions of years created these fuels. The hope =
of many is that the same kinds of natural forces can be harnessed to produce=
a hydrogen fuel. Using solar power to split hydrogen from a longer chain of=
hydrocarbons -- or even water -- would allow a "free" energy source to do t=
he hard work for us and leave us with a clean-burning fuel.
Hydrogen's potential is still untapped. The possibilities have interested a=
number of people; the problems have the attention of many more. Will hydrog=
en "be all that it can be"? Stay tuned. Curt Nichols Sr., Energy Program Man=
ager, Energy Division Office of Sustainable Development,
City of Portland (OR)
------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~-->
FREE COLLEGE MONEY
CLICK HERE to search
600,000 scholarships!
http://us.click.yahoo.com/Pv4pGD/4m7CAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM
---------------------------------------------------------------------~->
Biofuel at Journey to Forever:
http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html
Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address.
To unsubscribe, send an email to:
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
