Ken, We're in kind of the same boat as yourself. We've got a little over 100 gallons of hemp oil FFAs from the ~1,200 gallons of oil processed last summer.
As the stuff is a little out of the ordinary, we're not going to have much problem getting rid of it as an ingredient in all veggie bio-candles. The problem's going to be when we start producing WVOon a larger scale. I'm processing a liter of the glycerin that was recovered from last week's acid/base reactions as I write this, treating it with phosphoric 5ml at a time until no more precipitate forms (potassium phosphate). I'm hoping that no or almost no FFAs come out of solution. First guess is that the glycerin from an acid/base is going to be considerably darker than glycerin recovered from a straight base reaction, as most of the colorant goes with the FFAs when it separates. If there are considerably less FFAs in the glycerin layer of an acid/base, it stands to reason that the glycerin will be darker. Then what to do with it? It's going to be considerably less appealing in that state than the hemp glycerin. I suppose you could always use your FFAs to fuel an evaporation/distillation unit for the glycerin....lose one co-product but refine another. Anyway, none of this is exactly textbook chemistry at the moment, as most of the equipment is down the road in the chemist's lab. Just trying to get on a track that he can pursue to the infinite degree . We'll see... Todd ----- Original Message ----- From: Ken Provost <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <biofuel@yahoogroups.com> Sent: Sunday, April 28, 2002 11:42 AM Subject: Re: [biofuel] Results on Revised 2 Stage Acid/Base Method > Todd wrote: > > > > > >An acid/base requires no titration.... > > > I think Aleks' method is good up to about 8% FFA in the oil -- > at that level, you're right, titration is unnecessary. I tried > some 16% FFA oil (titrates at 21 ml NaOH!), and titration > after the acid step indicated I still had 5% FFA left, way too > much for his base step to work with the stated proportions. > > > > >Okay...so you have to reprocess 30% of your original 100% FFAs. > >Are you not already 70% ahead of the game? > > Yes and no -- the problem is separating the ester from the > unconverted FFA. If you start with oil containing 8% FFA and > end up with 2% FFA, that's not too much soap to deal with in the > base step. But starting with 100% FFA, and trying to wash out > 30% of it as soap is another story.... > > > > >In the meantime, however, I have to ask........If what you are > >trying to convert to esters are 100% FFAs....do you really see > >any need to go into a base stage? > > > SOME kind of base stage is necessary to separate the ester from > the unconverted FFAs, even if it's just a neutralizing step > (much like caustic refining) to wash out the FFAs as soap. The idea > of using clean oil to "dilute" the FFAs and processing the whole > thing with a 2-step is just one idea. > > >My best guess under such circumstances is that you would be > >better off switching to an acid/base method and not accumulating > >recovered FFAs in such high quantities in the first place. > > That's the idea of diluting the FFAs with clean oil, but if 8% is > the most I can put in a batch, it doesn't help much. > > Again, for a little background, the only reason I have free FFA > lying around at all is that I clean it out of the recovered glycerine > phase before neutralizing and composting (or flushing). The FFA > (or soap) is, I think, too nasty to dispose of that way. > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Buy Stock for $4 and no minimums. FREE Money 2002. http://us.click.yahoo.com/orkH0C/n97DAA/ySSFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Please do NOT send "unsubscribe" messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
