Oh, good grief!
Will all you children please stop bickering and get back to discussing
important issues, like who's turn it is to mind the toy cupboard at Kindy.
Will you all please take a deep breath and stand back and look at yourselves
... the abusers AND the abused.
For the abused, one bit of advice from an old man who has seen more than you
probably ever want to encounter ... ignore pretentious idiots and they will
eventually grow bored with verbal graffiti. For the idiots, no advice. You
will never listen to anyone but yourselves anyway.
Get a grip on reality or I'll set my nurse on the lot of you!
This is getting really boring.
Grumpy Retired Brigadier, of Bognor Regis
----- Original Message -----
From: Keith Addison
To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 7:40 PM
Subject: [biofuel] Re: Witch Hunters
Two points, Mr Smith, maybe more. One, it seems you came here to pick
a fight, no? Now why's that? Your viewing of the case is most
certainly skewed, in favour of what?
Second, one thing you appear not to have noticed (among several) is
that, had you gone onto MikeF's list and attacked him as you've come
here and attacked me and others, there's no doubt that he'd've kicked
you out, as he's kicked three others out (well, two - I wasn't a
member but he kicked me out anyway, LOL!). But you're still here.
"The only emailers Gene Bowers will exclude are ones passing a virus
or conveying violent threats, to the best of my knowledge." - MikeF.
Right. Hey, Steve, Kirk? Did you guys pass viruses or make violent
threats? Hm. Neither did I.
>Mr. Addison, I'm not sending my messages twice, but they are
>arriving twice and I can't do anything about it.
Well maybe you'll stop repeating yourself soon.
>Once in a great while my email address malfunctions and causes the
>doubling, sorry. Keith your complaining MikeF sent you a nasty email
>AFTER you wrote the FIRST nasty email.
It wasn't nasty. It also wasn't a personal attack. It raised quite a
few issues which Mike failed to address, not for the first time, as
you claim, and he responded with anger, and a personal attack.
>What did you expect ? Hearts & flowers, perhaps.
I expected a response to the issues I'd raised, which were most
relevant, but I got zero response, just a personal attack and insults.
>You and Todd do talk to people, sometimes, like a white master
>addressing his black servants, don't you realize that ? If you want
>to twist that into a racist comment than your truly full of crap.
You most certainly are full of crap. Of course it's a racist comment,
and it's utter bullshit. You'll see this as an instance, won't you?
It's direct, is all. And apt.
>If you helped South African blacks liberate themselves that's great.
>I commend you for your sense of moral purpose and bravery, but now
>you appear to be deliberately distorting, if not outright lieing,
>about a man who has done nothing, but give you his support.
More bullshit. Now tell me what I've distorted and tell me what lies
I've told, and make it both specific and snappy. Or shut up.
>What message does that send to your other supporters Keith ? How
>should they feel knowing you can turn on them, in a moments notice,
>and start launching insults and baseless accusations ? Bob
The distortions are all yours. There seems to be rather a lot you've
missed in your definitive judgment. It's half-assed as well as
one-sided - it started well before that. In this case, as before, I
was factual, the insults were Finley's. What I said was soundly
based, you just don't feel like seeing it that way.
Tell you what, Mr Smith, YOUR accusations should from now on be
soundly based. They should refer to specific examples, and you should
quote them, because so far all we've had from you is insults and
baseless accusations. Pin them down or don't make them.
Yes, that's a warning. If you have accusations to make, make sure
that you reference them properly. So far you've simply been trolling.
We don't allow trolls here. Go on now, yell about your views being
suppressed. Not so - you can express whatever views you like, but if
you're going to make accusations against people, reference it. Be
sure to stick to the facts.
Keith Addison
>
>--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > You're sending your messages twice, Bob Smith. Once is more than enough.
> >
> > Keith
> >
> >
> > >My full name is Bob Smith, its a real common name, but I'm stuck
> > >with it. Bob Unforth has the bobunf address. Mr. Unforth is ultra
> > >conservative, but I would call myself a techno green leftist. I'm
> > >all for renewables, hate nuclear and consider biofuel an important
> > >transitional energy. I agreed with Todd 95% of the time when he was
> > >in energyoptions, but he turned people off with his hard style. When
> > >Keith Addison was describing MikeF as a vindictive natured person
> > >who makes personalized charges of any kind I thought he was
> > >describing Todd much better. I'm afraid I have found no truth in
> > >Addison's accusations towards MikeF . MikeF is a persistent debater,
> > >but he doesn't lose his cool all that often. If anything he's one of
> > >the mellowest writers in green-energy-options. Bob
> > >--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED], "Appal Energy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > > That's Bob huh? Wouldn't be Bob Unforth? The same guy who shoots
> > > > down every post about wind, solar and other AE at the same site
> > > > in question, with over escalated pricing and under valued wind
> > > > and capacity factors? The same guy almost everyone with half a
> > > > brain has taken to task for repeatedly errant and omissive
> > > > calculations? And oddly enough one of .....(urp!)'s most ardent
> > > > supporters......?
> > > >
> > > > Somehow you seem to believe that age is an excuse for really
> > > > obnoxious and slanderous social skills, thereby a qualifier for
> > > > permitting such abuse by ......(urp!) to continue ad infinitum.
> > > > As a result, you somehow seem to believe that it's acceptable for
> > > > a person to slander without substance, issue insult without
> > > > cause, defame without personal knowledge, debase without data and
> > > > generally defraud through continual mis-representation and
> > > > dis-information.
> > > >
> > > > All for what? So that a single person of any particular age can
> > > > feel wanted?
> > > >
> > > > Try balancing this out with your rather dull reasoning skills -
> > > > one person permitted to irradicate literally handfuls of hundreds
> > > > off a list, no matter their age, interests or intellect, simply
> > > > because they don't agree with his singular mindset and constant
> > > > manipulation and distortion of facts.
> > > >
> > > > It doesn't matter if .....(urp!) is the pope, the king of Siam or
> > > > my own grand dad....his behavior is what one would expect out of
> > > > the "Back End of [a] Horse." And those who support such behavior,
> > > > especially those in the position of "moderator," openly display
> > > > gross irresponsibility by placing one person's BS over the honest
> > > > intent and needs of hundreds.
> > > >
> > > > As for your being flabbergasted by any response made to or about
> > > > Mr. Finley in particular or others, you might try getting
> > > > acquainted with some of the supportive material before you get
> > > > your dainties all bunched. Mr. Finley's own off list
> > > > correspondence to this soul, offering rationale for his madness ,
> > > > which has resulted in the on going and ceaseless abusive cycle at
> > > > [the so called] "Green" Energy [so called] Options" would be
> > > > enough to nail his sorry butt to the wall for criminal neglect,
> > > > if not intent, were it to occur anywhere outside of the "virtual
> > > > world." And Mr. Bowers would be found equally as guilty for
> > > > aiding and abetting.
> > > >
> > > > Todd Swearingen
> > > >
> > > > ----- Original Message -----
> > > > From: farm_green <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > > > Sent: Sunday, July 21, 2002 11:41 PM
> > > > Subject: [biofuel] Witch Hunters
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > > During the fifteen months green-energy-options has existed Mike
> > > > Finley has extended more kind remarks, endorsements and referrals
> > > > to Keith Addison and Steve Spence than anybody else. Mike
> > > > remarked frequently how impressive the journeytoforever website
> > > > was and how valuable the internet service is that Keith and Steve
> > > > provide. I find this whole flare up kind of puzzling and tend to
> > > > feel its MikeF whose the real victim. Steve Spence can get real
> > > > overbearing and keeps telling people to 'forget' hydrogen. When
> > > > it comes to most energy matters I'm sure Steve is a solid source
> > > > of facts, but I'm far from alone in distrusting his anti-hydrogen
> > > > bias. This flare up began with Steve dismissing any possibility
> > > > hydrogen could be drawn from water with a molecular mechanism,
> > > > which is a hot topic for nanotech students. What really floored
> > > > me was this rage that Keith flew into over the nanotech article
> > > > passed along to the biofuel group by MikeF . Could anybody please
> > > > explain to me what is shrill or pushy or intimidating about that
> > > > nanotech article ? As a lead in to the article MikeF wrote: 'If
> > > > you think nanotech is science fiction, think again'. What is so
> > > > freaking offensive about that ? At this point I would bet most
> > > > people do believe that nanotech is still science fiction. The
> > > > real problem is that MikeF refused to banish John Grant from
> > > > green-energy-options despite repeated demands by Keith, Steve and
> > > > the most foul mouthed snot on the internet - Todd (Appal Energy).
> > > > I know one of the major reasons MikeF keeps John in the group is
> > > > because John is getting on in years (70's) and really just wants
> > > > other people to talk with. Last month green-energy-options ran a
> > > > poll and found 80% of the respondents saying they opposed nuclear
> > > > power. Since (american) national polls show opinions split 50-50
> > > > on the nuclear issue its tough to see how green-energy-options is
> > > > any kind of sanctuary for pro nukers. Its more like a place where
> > > > pro nukers go to get assaulted. In fact, I would bet you will
> > > > find more anti-nuke rhetoric in green-energy-options than the
> > > > great majority of energy groups. In closing I have a little
> > > > warning for the architects of this witchhunting campaign against
> > > > MikeF: If you want a legal war on your hands, if you want to
> > > > spend an enormous amount of time and money fighting civil
> > > > charges, than keep your little witchhunt cranked up. Your the
> > > > ones who will get burned. Bob
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