>Is there a reason you didn't crosspost this lengthy answer, which I >thought was good and took some work,
Not much work, it's all to hand already. I'm glad you liked it. >so that those in a renewable >energy area could also have the benefit of your thinking? I mean, >some of them are obviously interested in defining and discussing >sustainability issues, so I'm asking if there's some matter of >principle preventing you and others from crossposting. I can read and >be enligtened by or disagree with this or that response, but it's a >pity in my view for it to miss out on so many others who might find >some interest in these responses because there seems to be a tendancy >against any crossposting. I do a lot of cross-posting, so do others. Nothing against it, quite opposite. But I'm not a member of that list and I don't want to join it, so I can't cross-post there. For others, you didn't repeat the address and they'd've had to go and look for it in the previous message. I think you have to relay them yourself, which can get a bit troublesome if the thread develops, but I can't think of another way unless there's really a lot of cross-membership. Even then, we cross-post between Biofuel and Biofuels-biz, people cross-post between Distillers and New Distillers, between the GAS list and the Stoves list. Some people apparently think it's polite to ask permission of the author before cross-posting, but I don't agree with that, though I quite often do ask (never been refused). Of course the author and the list must be clearly identified in cross-posts (though not necessarily if you're only commenting on something someone else said and quote it for that purpose, especially not if you're being negative about it). Feel free. >Although discussion of soil as a finite resource (or not) may not be >directly about renewable energy, it does seem to bear on defining >whehter biofuels can be defined as such, so I'm not sure it would be >contrary to a renewable group's charter. It shouldn't be, IMO. They're primarily wind energy, but biomass is a considerable part of the renewable field, and without soil maintenance biomass resources are not sustainable or renewable. With soil maintenance they are, or can be. So it's a crucial aspect, almost a defining aspect. Regards Keith >MM > > >>In this case, the goal was to copy ideas like yours' and others' to > >>the renewable fuels group where a participant seems to have declared > >>that he does not think any hydrocarbon (or alcohol or similar I guess) > >>can be considered a renewable fuel. To his credit, I think part of > >>his thinking is a concern for soil as a finite resource, not an > >>unworthy topic IMO. > >> > >>MM > > > >Hi MM > > > >Soil is not a finite resource. Farming is not the same as mining, > >that's why it's called husbandry. Or used to be. A soil community is > >effectively immortal. It can be killed though, and it can be wasted > >too. Much of what's called "farming" today is more of a mining > >operation than husbandry - fertility extraction. "Replacing" what's > >allegedly removed in chemical form - NPK - is just as likely to wreck > >the soil as maintain it. Treating you that way would probably wreck > >you too - no way to treat a living creature, there's more to biology > >than chemistry. > > > >The 1999 report on the University of Wisconsin-Madison's ongoing > >37-year project monitoring the effects of nitrogen fertilisers in the > >US concluded that agriculture's continuing overapplication of > >nitrogen fertilizers is causing irreparable damage to the soil. It > >said US farms have "a 50% applied nitrogen efficiency rate" -- only > >half the nitrogen applied to the soil is actually used by the crop. > >The other half becomes harmful nitric acid. They said three decades > >of such overuse of nitrogen has destroyed much of the soil's > >fertility, causing it to age the equivalent of 5,000 years. -- > >"Acidification From Fertilizer Use Linked To Soil Aging": > >http://www.cals.wisc.edu/media/news/03_99/acid_soil.html > > > >... the soil foodweb, the complex food chain of microbial life in the > >soil, is the missing half of a complete picture of soil management. > >'We have this great fertilizer technology out there where you can > >farm great out of your left eye, but you're not allowed to look out > >of your right eye," he says. "We haven't been intentionally and > >deliberately managing the life in our soil, coordinating that with > >fertilizer programs, and getting both sides of the equation to our > >plants to grow high yields." > >http://www.soilfoodweb.com/phpweb/userpage.php?uid=133 > >Soil Food Web > > > >(Other people were saying all that 80 years ago, and saying it better.) > > > >Anyway, this mining operation isn't at all necessary, and doing it > >properly needn't lead to decreased yields, decreased productivity, > >decreased "efficiency" - quite the opposite. We've had organic > >farmers here attesting to this, reassuring other farmers nervous > >about making the change. "You'll be laughing all the way to the > >bank." There's a large amount of support for that view. > >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?view=12561&list=BIOFUEL > > > >So, why should growing fuel crops be any different to growing food > >crops, or at growing industrialized commodities like corn and soy > >(which are mostly commodities rather than food)? Or, if he's > >concerned about soil as a finite resource, why isn't his concern > >directed at food crops as well, at current industrialized "farming" > >practices in general? Maybe he doesn't understand it very well. > > > >This is a good place to start: > >http://journeytoforever.org/farm.html > > > >> > Who invented it has been a major question thoughout History. Darwin > >> >presents one popular theory, and every religious group in the world > >> >has a different answer as to who is the inventor or Creator! > >> > They are readily avaiable nearly everywhere, in many different > >> >models and sizes. You can even grow your own from readily avaiable > >> >seeds. > >> > > >> >Motie > > > >One thing's for certain - Monsanto didn't invent it, and doesn't own > >it either, despite rumours to the contrary. > > > >Best > > > >Keith Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
