Actually I took pics of the jar that you brought to the workshop. At least that's what I think it is (or what it looks like!). It could have been an emulsification exammple, although the middle layer is molasses color, so it seems to be Glyc seperation.
Dunno, there was a question from Ken whether or not he was processing the right stuff, cause there was mention of soap in what he was processing. Also there was a question on if he was using the correct acid for the process. BTW, does anyone out there have a somewhat well defined process for doing this in small batches, ie. 5 gal buckets. Even something larger to 55 gal drums would be interesting to have (I expect Todd to chime in here). That would be worthy for publishing on JTF for all to peruse. James Slayden On Fri, 31 Jan 2003, girl mark wrote: > I don't think anyone photographed it and I don't have a digital camera. > But > there's photos at the jtf section on glycerine/ffa separation and Im sure > that filip saw them... > mark > > At 11:51 AM 1/31/2003 -0800, you wrote: > >darn, I wish I had my pics from the seperations we did in Girl Marks > >Ecology Center workshop. Mark, you have any online Pics available on > what > >the seperation should look like? > > > > > >James Slayden > > > > > >On Thu, 30 Jan 2003, filip.ponsaerts wrote: > > > > > follow-up on my question, see answers below > > > Who can help me on this??? > > > > > > >> > > > >>From one of the one-liter batches I'm trying, I tried to split the > > > >>soap again into FFA. So the deposits of the trans-esterification, > > > >>I seperated, and mixed with H2SO4. > > > > > > > > > > > >both phases, or just the glycerine phase that had already settled > out > > > >using an NaOH catalyst? It's not clear (to me at least) if you have > > > >even produced biodiesel here. If you already have a biodiesel phase > > > >and a glycerine phase, obviously separated, subsequent extraction > > > >of FFA should involve acidifying ONLY the glycerine phase. > > > > > > I first separated de Biodiesel from the deposits > > > (glycerine+soap+NaOH+...) > > > Only the lower phase was used to add acid. > > > > > > >>The oil source was WVO, animal fat based. (French fries) For the > > > >>BD proces, I used 5g NaOH. Now in advance I calculated I would need > > > >>3,5 ml of my 95% h2so4 to get the mixture to ph7. I now already > > > >>added 10ml of H2SO4, and still no sign of seperating glycerine. > > > > > > > > > > > >Here's where I get confused. If you've successfully made biodiesel, > > > >you should have already seen glycerine separation after the NaOH > > > >step. Perhaps you're confusing the separation of glycerine with the > > > >separation of FFA, which requires acid rather than base. > > > > > > >From step one, the trans-esterification process, I separated the > esters > > > from > > > the lower phase. > > > The lower phase, once acid is added, should separate into salt, > glycerine > > > and > > > FFA. This separation does not occur! > > > I keep on having a blackisch glop, and the more I add acid, the more > it > > > stinks...but not different phases (salt-glyc-FFA), already added 25ml > > > H2SO4 > > > > > > This is in the case I use animal fat based WVO from the french fries > shop > > > around the corner. I also did the same with WVO (vegetable based) > from a > > > different source, > > > I get about the same amount of Biodiesel, and from the lower phase, > after > > > adding acid, I get a more or less clean split of the glyc. and FFA, > but > > > not > > > noticable salt layer. I would expect Na2SO4. I'm going to try to dry > the > > > glyc. > > > layer, to see if the Na2SO4 is still dissolved in the water in the > > > glycerine. > > > > > > >If, on the other hand, it's I that is confused (often the case :-)), > > > and > > > >you are acidifying just the glycerine phase, after separating it > from > > > >a successful biodiesel reaction, then I would agree with Mark -- > keep > > > >adding acid. The FFA will eventually float up to the top as a dark > > > >reddish-brown, odd-smelling oily layer. > > > > > > I already added 25ml H2SO4! It is smelling very badly and giving > fumes... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > > ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.h > ml > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > <http://archive.nnytech.net/>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > ><http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html>http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel. > tml > > > >Biofuels list archives: > ><http://archive.nnytech.net/>http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the > ><http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>Yahoo! Terms of Service. > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
