Hi Mark, I agree with you on using electric hot water tanks. I've got an 80 gallon electric tank I'm going to use as my wash tank.
We did one batch using NaOH mixing with the chem mixer tank. At the time, we didn't have a system for slowly dropping in the catalyst. So we quickly popped the top off and just dumped the whole load of NaOH into the methanol, trying to minimize our exposure to the fumes. Not good! The pump started to groan and shutter quite a bit. This action didn't seem to do any permanent damage to the pump. Eventually the NaOH did dissolve. There was quite a large clump sitting on the bottom for awhile. We have now devised a system made from an 18 inch length of 4 inch PVC pipe with a screw cap on top. The bottom is reduced down to 2 inch, where I cut a slot into the pipe. Into the slot I fitted a flat piece of rigid plastic where I can slide it in and out, thereby controlling the flow of catalyst. The bottom of the 2 inch PVC has a male PVC pipe fitting which fits into a PVC female coupling epoxied into the lid. After filling the mix tank with the proper amount of methanol, and putting in the measured amount of catalyst into the feeder pipe contraption, I thread out the plug in the female coupling and thread in the PVC catalyst contraption. I then slowly pull out the slide until I can hear the KOH dropping into the methanol. Works very well. I believe this type of system would work just as well with NaOH as with KOH, just taking a little more mixing time, and maybe dropping in less at a time. Another possibility for a valve of sorts I've seen available in Ag supply catalogs that would work for slowly feeding the catalyst is a type of plastic slider valve/gate valve, although it's more expensive. The the size of these chem mix tanks are in between a 30 gallon and a 55 gallon drum. Flat bottoms, with a drain in the center. The tops have rolled stainless steel edges, just like 55 gallon drum with the removable lids. The pumps are bolted directly under the drain area. We've modified the pumps a bit to allow us to take fluid from outside the tank, into the pumps, and pump directly out to another tank, without filling the tank these pumps are attached to. These tanks were built in the '70's. Parts, so far, are impossible to get from the company. The company (can't think of the name) is one of the many Japanese manufacturers making the high tech one hour photo finishing systems. I suppose these were designed for a large? photo lab, mixing up batches of their photo chemicals. Best regards, Chris skillshare wrote: > Chris, > Sounds like a very nice system! I'm pretty fond of pump agitation- I think it > gets a really good initial mix of > methoxide dispersed throughout the oil- but stirred tank reactors can be > built cheaper. One thing that confuses > people about 'how to build a processor'? is that there are just so many > different options depending on the resources > available- in your case, the photo mix tank, in my case, a glut of free > barrels. I think the most basic 'off the > shelf' system has got to be domestic water heaters- right now, a 50gallon > electric one is $200 new in the hardware > store, and the rest of the parts would run an additional $100- but having > access to scrap or free parts can make > some interesting combinations possible. > > My boyfriend has a homebuilt stirred tank reactor which additionally has a > small mag-drive pump to mix in the > methoxide, to help with better methoxide dispersal. He's got it set up so > that the stream of methoxide shoots > against the direction that the stirred tank oil rotates (hope this sentence > makes sense). He already had these parts > from having inherited a 'kit-makers' plastic processor which burned, and I > wouldn't recommend doing it this way if > designing a system from scratch, but the one you describe sounds really good > and simple. > > KOH in my experience needs almost no agitation to dissolve in methanol. We > just did it in front of an admiring crowd > of Interns last night- watching the stuff dissolve in about 5 minutes just > sitting there (it's low-free fatty acid > oil with little KOH needed). After fighting with the 'is this lye dissolved > yet?' question for a while, it was nice > seeing it juyst magically disappear. (we use the 'Methoxide the Easy Way' > system form journeytoforever, which with > NaOh can be confusing to beginners sometimes since people seem to have some > trouble seeing remaining clumps of lye > for some reason) Have you tried your pump-agitated methoxide system using > NaOH catalyst? I've always assumed it'd > clog some pumps since it can form rather large clumps sometimes, and since > with my equipment I either don't mix it > mechanically or I use a drum mixer I found, I haven't had a chance to try > this theory out. ANyone else using a pump > to mix NaOH and methanol? What shape are the photographic chem mix tanks, and > what is their usual application in > photography? > > Take care, > Mark > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, C&H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Hi Mark, sorry for taking so long to repost. > > > > The contact cement doesn't have any exposure to the biodiesel or > methoxide fumes. The lid, with the laminate on the > > bottom, extends beyond the silicon gasket. I've got a few fittings > drilled into the top of the plywood lid for pumping > > in methanol, dropping in KOH, etc. I threaded these holes with a 3/4 > inch pipe tap and epoxied the fittings in, making > > sure the epoxy went a bit over the edge of the laminate. So far, so > good! > > > > I have to thank you for reporting on the failed respirator problem > back (I believe) last year. That certainly alerted > > us to fact that we needed sealed and vented processing equipment. We > did try our first large (at that time for us) > > batch right around that time (30 gallon) without covers, and very > quickly found out that this open top thing wasn't > > going to work, or in fact would kill us off real quick. So, thanks > again for reporting that. > > > > We too are using pump mixing. I scored two 140 liter stainless steel > chemical photographic mixing tanks, that have > > magnetic driven pumps. We use one for mixing our methanol and KOH, > and then pump the mix into our heated processor > > tank, but in a loop between the tank and mixer tank, mixing for two > hours at around 125 deg F. The mixer tank has a > > jet in the bottom side at about 6 o'clock, facing clockwise, which > creates a vortex of sorts. There is a baffle at > > around 4 o'clock, which breaks up the vortex. The pump takes the > fluid from a drain in the bottom. Our larger heated > > processor tank has a rounded bottom, where we take the fluid from > the bottom, then into the inlet of the chemical > > mixer, leaving about 50 liters in that tank to mix, and pumping the > rest back into the big tank, all in a loop. > > Anyway, it works for us. Seems to make good biodiesel. > > > > Chris > > > > > > girl_mark_fire wrote: > > > > > Hey, that's how I was planning on making a weldless lidded > processor > > > when the 'respirators don't work against methanol' info came to > light > > > and I had two open barrel processors! I figured, thick plywood > lids > > > would be a quick retrofit for the type of stirred-barrel processor > a > > > lot of us used. Pop rivets are a great invention. (i instead > > > decommissioned one stirred tank, rebuilt another using a friends' > > > welding skills, and started building the rest of my equipment out > of > > > closedhead drums and using pump agitation instead of stirred) > > > How does the contact cement for the plastic laminate hold up to > > > biodiesel contact? > > > > > > > > Mark > > > > > > --- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, C&H <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Keith, our seals are made from 3/8 inch ID silicon tubing, which > is > > > slit lengthwise and then glued with silicon > > > > caulking to the rim of the tank. Our tops are made from 3/4 inch > > > plywood cut to a circle but with plastic laminate > > > > glued to the side exposed to the fumes. The top is latched to > the > > > tank top with toggle latches pop riveted to the side > > > > of the tank at the top edge. This setup makes for a very tight > seal. > > > > > > > > Chris > > > > > > > > > > > > Keith Addison wrote: > > > > > > > > > >Sweet! Just make sure you have a really good lid on it with a > > > GASKET > > > > > >for fumes. Gaskets can be made up out of silicone. > > > > > >mark > > > > > > > > > > What do you use as a silicone release agent? I'd've thought > > > "silicone > > > > > release agent", but I can't find such a thing here, nor anyone > > > who's > > > > > heard of it. :-( > > > > > > > > > > Thanks! > > > > > > > > > > Keith > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >--- In biofuel@yahoogroups.com, Neoteric Biofuels Inc > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > > > > >wrote: > > > > > > > Hi Mark, just a mention once again that old-fashioned > wringer > > > > > >washers > > > > > > > make a good instant processor. We've used our' one for > test > > > batches > > > > > >for > > > > > > > 3 years, no modifications, no leaks. Just insulated it > with > > > some > > > > > > > aluminum bubble pack, used a stock tank heater to heat the > > > oil. > > > > > >Legs, > > > > > > > bottom drain, agitator....it cost $1 at auction and the > 120V > > > stock > > > > > >tank > > > > > > > heater was about $5 at a yard sale. Ours had no wringer on > it, > > > > > >which > > > > > > > was fine, and it is electric, but there are those old > gasoline > > > > > >engine > > > > > > > powered types for the off-gridders... replace the gas > engine > > > with a > > > > > > > little Yanmar. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ;-) > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > > > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > > > > Biofuels list archives: > > > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > > > > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > > > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > > > > Your use of > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/ > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! 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