Hello Frank, Tony >I,m delighted to know that BIODIESEL can be used as lubeoil for two >stroke gasoline engine, I want to try this on my motorcycle engine, Does >anybody from the group can advise me, how much biodiesel to be mixed >with regular gasoline? Or what ratio required between biodiesel and >gasoline mixed up to fuel my motorcycle engine. I want to get rid of >this 2T lube oil on my engine coz it produce smoke causing pollution. > >Hope to find answer from the group
Well, Tony's saying Don't do it! But others have done it, apparently with good results, though we haven't had any long-term reports. Here are some previous messages on this subject: "Edward Beggs" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>: > > That's right. It is Ok to use certain vegetable oil products and veg > > oil/biodiesel blends for the two stroke lube, to replace the oil, and the > > lubricity is going to be better in that case. --------- Keith: >Biodiesel's a superfine lubricator. 1% of biodiesel in LSD or ULSD >increases lubricity by 60%. --------- >Canola and additive packages can make a good 2 stroke oil. I do not know >about biodiesel, have never tried it. Much higher proportion than normal >oil, I would think - I would try very rich mixture compared to normal for a >two-stroke (like B20, maybe even B50, and try it on an engine you don't >care about first). Better to clean plugs than seize engine! > >Ed B. >www.biofuels.ca --------- ><[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Well, that's not true, in fact they [Castrol] are still >selling castor oil for >2-strokes, especially for racing. Looks to me that it's more a matter of it >being too expensive. Doing a google search on the subject, I'm seeing a lot of >companies selling castor oil and castor oil blends with synthetic, and >references to "the more expensive castor oil", etc. > Look at this page for instace: >http://www.out2win.com/catalog/klotz_2cycle.html > > or do a google on "castor oil" ("2-stroke" or "2-cycle") --------- Keith: >We have had some reports of using biodiesel as 2-stroke oil. It's a >super lubricator and seems to work fine. Older engines might need a >higher mix ratio - one earlier message advised: > >"Old two-stroke engines like yours usually have bronze wrist pin bearings >and thus require a richer oil mixture to adequately lube that bushing. >Incidentally in a two stroke you will often find the wrist pin bearing fails >first from poor lubrication (It is just much harder to get the oil into it!) > I would recommend at least to stick with the 20-1 or even 15-1 seeing as >biodiesel is a "thinner" oil than normal two-stroke oil. I have no idea what >effect bio-diesel would have on the octane of gasoline but it probably isn't >so important on old engines because they usually have a very low c/r anyway." > >Actually it turns out biodiesel isn't thinner than standard 2-stroke >oil, or not by much. > >New engines need what, 50:1 or less? Try it and see, start with a >higher ratio than recommended for standard oil. At least one list >member uses biodiesel with his chain saw, no problems when last we >heard. --------- Martin R. of Australia uses biodiesel as two-stroke oil in his chain saw, at a mix of 20 to 1 with gasoline. "It works fine," he says. "After using the saw for 2.5 hours in one go on dead Australian hardwood with no hiccups I was very impressed to say the least." --------- Keith: >Suggest you try using biodiesel, but maybe try a richer mix first. >There's been some advice about this too, pros and cons. Got an old >motor to experiment with? Anyway, "experiment" is the word, no >guarantees! (So don't sue me!) --------- >From my experience, you have to use a "use specific" 2 stroke oil in >a two stroke. I have ruined one lawn mower by using the wrong oil, >a descision based on bad advice. > >Chain saws are supposed to be even more pickey about what oil they >get. Use the wrong oil and the crank bearings go. > >I will let someone else do the experimenting with bio-diesel as 2 >stroke fuel, and I would really like to see some long term use >reports. > >EdB --------- We'd all like to see some long-term reports, but short-term reports are encouraging. >Thanks to Todd (golden brown biodiesel) > >Regards to all > >Frank > >-----Original Message----- >From: Tony Clark [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >Sent: Tuesday, October 21, 2003 10:11 PM >To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com >Subject: [biofuel] Re: Ethanol and BioDiesel - use of biodiesel as >2stroke lubeoil > > Date: Fri, 17 Oct 2003 23:22:38 +0900 > From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Subject: Re: Ethanol and BioDiesel > >Hi Tony, Dan > > > > Date: Thu, 16 Oct 2003 08:06:02 -0600 (MDT) > > > From: Dan Maker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > > >Subject: Ethanol and BioDiesel > > > > > >I've heard of people using biodiesel as the oil in two cycle engine > > >gas/oil mix, could ethanol and biodiesel be used to power a two cycle > > >IC engine? Ofcourse the carburation would have to be modified to >burn >the > > >ethanol, but would the biodiesel and ethanol emulsify well enough, or >would > > >they seperate out in the tank and cause problems? > >I think no problem with separation, I'll try to find some confirmation >of >that. > > > >I'm asking because I've been offered a two cycle strimmer, and I'm > > >considering mounting the engine to my bicycle as a boost to make my >commute > > >to work faster. > > > > > >Thanks, > > >Dan > > > > > > >Biodiesel has a vast improvement over the lubricity of LSDiesel. >Biodiesel > >does NOT have a fraction of the lubricity of 2 stroke oil. Biodiesel >is >NOT > >suitable for use as a 2 stroke oil! The use of Biodiesel as a 2 stroke >oil > >WILL result in the destruction of the motor in which it is used. > >Be Warned > >Tony > >How do you know that, Tony? Do you know of any cases where it's >happened? Any data on bd vs 2 stroke oil lubricity? We've heard of >quite a few cases of people using biodiesel as 2 stroke oil, some of >them in the list archives, though without a lot of detail, nor >long-term results, but we haven't heard of any destroyed motors. They >all sounded like satisfied customers, using chain saws and so on. One >had a 2-stroke motorbike, or was it a moped. We have a few 2-strokes >here, chainsaws, strimmers, and we'd be using biodiesel with them >only the 2-stroke fuel here is pre-mixed with oil. So we're waiting >until we start producing fuel ethanol, which should be quite soon. >More info please! > >Thanks > >Keith > >Keith, >I have heard on another forum, but I have not the time to research that >post, of a line trimmer which was damaged by using biodiesel as the >lubricant in a fuel:biofiesel mix. I do not have any details of the >blend >ratio or whether the biodiesel was washed, polished or air dried. Tony, I don't think your case is very strong - not enough to support your very strong warning: a "STRONG possibility" of destroying their 2 stroke engine? One damaged line trimmer, you heard about it, you have no details, you don't know the blend ratio or the quality of the biodiesel, and maybe don't even know for sure that it was the biodiesel that did the damage. Was that proved? Anyway, what sort of damage? Damage or destruction? Now you're saying there's a "STRONG possibility", in your previous message you were definite about it: "The use of Biodiesel as a 2 stroke oil WILL result in the destruction of the motor in which it is used." And you've nothing much to base it on. Why are you being so alarmist? >I have felt the oiliness of biodiesel, canola and 2stroke lube oil with >my >fingers. There is a vast difference between biodiesel and canola, with >canola being more slippery. There is about the same degree of >slipperiness >with canola and 2 stroke lube oil, using my "lubricity calibrated >fingers" >;). Come on, Tony! LOL! Anyway, perceived "slipperiness" is not the only requirement of a lubricating oil. How will it stand up in use? In fact biodiesel is used as a lubricating oil in diesels, see above: 1% of biodiesel added to LSD or ULSD fuel increases the lubricity by 60% and allows older diesel motors to use the cleaner fuel without an expensive retrofit. This is a major reason that between 2% and 5% of biodiesel is added to all diesel fuel in France, and it's also part of the marketing strategy of the NBB in the US. >I do not mind if anyone wants to chance destroying their 2 stroke >engine. I >do want them to be aware that they have a STRONG possibility of doing >it. >Once they have the information, then their choice will be at least >somewhat >informed. I don't think you've added anything much except a not very well substantiated note of alarm. >They can do their own research on the lubricating properties >to >make their decisions, but to not warn them is effectively promoting the >use >(of biodiesel) as a lubricant. It's been tried, it worked, but no long-term results - obviously it's experimental, proceed at your own risk. Nobody's pretending it's a tried-and-trusted procedure, nobody's being misled or misinformed. But it's worth knowing, worth experimenting. >While it is a great fuel and has much >better >lubricity than ULSD, it is a fuel, not a lubricant, and should be used >wuth >extreme caution for non-fuel uses. It is a lubricant as well as a fuel. "Caution", sure, where the use is not well-established, but there's a good case for trying it. "Extreme" caution? You're over-reacting, IMO. Best Keith >Tony >ps, sorry it took so long to reply, but demands on my time from >community >obligations have increased recently. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ---------------------~--> Rent DVDs from home. Over 14,500 titles. Free Shipping & No Late Fees. Try Netflix for FREE! http://us.click.yahoo.com/mk9osC/hP.FAA/3jkFAA/FGYolB/TM ---------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
