alex <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I think that this is an established fact. > Now imagine the situation: you spend tens of thousand to install the > turbine, and every day it kills someone. In my opinion, turbine is not an > answer. What is the real answer? - Energy derived from disassociation of > matter. Matter is a conserved energy. Does it has to be based on chain > reaction? -No. Look at http://www.nerl.org. Alex > It is an established fact that there have been some highly publicized reports about dead birds, including raptors, have been found on the ground near older generation and badly sited wind turbines (notably Altamont Pass). To my knowledge, the actual cause mechanism has not been substantively addressed. For example, are the prey of raptors more prevalent around the turbines, or more visible because the land around them is cleared? I don't know, and I'm not aware of controlled tests on similar pieces of cleared land with no towers, or towers without blades, or towers with stationary blades, etc.
Other established facts. Birds are killed by many things. Other birds. Buildings. Smokestacks. Oil spills. Road vehicles (probably even some running on biofuels). Hunters. Aircraft. Trains. Pesticides. Chemical releases (notably airborne from industrial facilities). Acid rain. Loss of habitat (e.g. construction, flooding of land for dams). Loss of feed. But the number one cause of bird deaths in the western world is .... house cats. Would you propose to eliminate these as well due to their impact on birds? Wind turbines are being improved in this regard over time. It is a learning experience. Migratory paths and known habitats are now part of major turbine siting surveys. In general, larger turbines are using slower turning blades to reduce collision frequency. House rooftops may be a dangerous place to put small turbines in terms of bird safety. I don't know. I do know that many houses in this area use the rotating (wind-powered) attic ventilator fans on their rooftops, and I am not aware of any anecdotal evidence that these present a signficant number of bird injuries. All energy sources have some hazards associated with them. Sunlight causes sunburns and according to some sources, skin cancer. Winds of sufficient speeds cause property damage, injury and death. In my experience, nothing is completely benign - everything has consequences. And there is nothing so pure or simple that it cannot be done sufficiently badly as to have negative consequences. In my opinion, harvesting wind energy (in many ways) is one of our better options in terms of low negative consequences, at least from the inventory of ready-for-use techniques of which I am aware. I took a quick look at the link you provided. I'm as much a fan of exotic energy solutions as anyone, but the first sentence on the master index page says "At this time we offer students and teachers alternative energy experiments for the classroom." That pretty much removes them from the "ready-for-use" category. My opinions on fuel cells are captured at http://www.econogics.com/en/heconomy.htm. Regards, Darryl McMahon > robert luis rabello wrote: > > >alex wrote: > > > > > > > >> Turbines kill birds. > >>Alex > >> > >> > >> > > > > Please qualify your statement. Large turbines in migratory paths > >have been known to kill raptors. This is unfortunate, and work needs to > >be done in this area. However, making a blanket statement of this nature > >leads uninformed people to believe that "all turbines" in "all areas" > >kill "all birds." This is simply not the case. > > > > Further, Hakan was referring to very small, rooftop mounted > >machines. There is no evidence that these kill birds--especially the > >vertical axis turbines to which he specifically refers. > > > > Are you trolling, or do you have something substantive to submit to > >this discussion? > > > >robert luis rabello > >"The Edge of Justice" > >Adventure for Your Mind > >http://www.1stbooks.com/bookview/9782 > > > > > > > >[Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > > >Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > > >Biofuels list archives: > >http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > > >Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > >To unsubscribe, send an email to: > >[EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > >To visit your group on the web, go to: > > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > > >To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > >Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > > > > > > > > > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] > > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: > http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html > > Biofuels list archives: > http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel > > Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. > To unsubscribe, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > To visit your group on the web, go to: > http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ > > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: > [EMAIL PROTECTED] > > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: > http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ > > > Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://archive.nnytech.net/index.php?list=biofuel Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
