Keith, Apologies for not replying to your message below. When I previously opened your message, it appeared that 'Hi' was all you had written. The more recent note from Tilly suggested there was more to your response, which made me go back and scroll down to see a very thoughtful response.
My reply is interspersed below. I have (((triple bracketed))) my recent additions to indicate that it is the 3rd addition to this exchange. BK >From: Keith Addison <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >Reply-To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >Subject: Re: [Biodiesel] NOx/Ozone >Date: Mon, 19 Apr 2004 15:08:36 +0900 > >Hi > > >hi there, > > > >Till now, I've been listening in to the discussion group and learning >quite > >a bit. Thanks to you all. I have also gained quite a database of > >information related to development of biodiesel in Hong Kong. > > > >One thing being considered by Government at the moment is to limit >biodiesel > >to 5 or 10% mixes because of the reported tendancy for biodiesel to >increase > >NOx emissions relatvie to ultra-low sulfur diesel, the standard diesel in > >Hong Kong. > > > >I have also heard/seen evidence that biodiesel from waste restaurant >greases > >and oils has much less a tendancy to increase NOx, and in fact, has been > >shown to decrease NOx emissions. Furthermore, the main issue of concern >is > >ozone formation, and I have read in numerous reports that biodiesel in > >general, and biodiesel from waste greases and oils in particular, >decreases > >ozone forming potential of emissions (apart from impact on NOx). > > > >Can anyone refer studies/anecdotes that support that: > >- Biodeisel from waste greases and oils has less tendancy to increase >NOx > >or decreases NOx; and/or > >- Biodiesel has a tendancy to decrease ozone forming potential of >emissions > >(despite impact on NOx)? > > > >Unfortunately, all other benefits of biodiesel are taking back stage in >Hong > >Kong, and NOx and ozone are the focus. > >We've found that where authorities insist on that focus, it's >generally because they're looking for obstacles rather than >solutions. No doubt there are exceptions to that but from our >previous experience there, I doubt Hong Kong would be one of them. >(Do people there still refer to the EPD as the "Environment >Prevention Department"?) The EPD's Mr Mok was quick to seek out >objections to biodiesel's benefits rather than considering its >potential (to the extent that a lot of people enquired whether he >worked for Shell). Of course NOx is the obvious one. (((Generally, the attitude does seem to be one of support, particularly from LegCo members, Env. Transport and Works Bureau, and yes.. even EPD. There is significant consideration being given to this one POTENTIALLY negative aspect, and I am certain that EPD would love nothing more than tests to come back with all positives. Unfortunately, it seems that it needs to be 100% benefit, rather than a mere 95% or 90% in order for them to alleviate pressures being exerted by... well, you know the players.))) >Try telling them that NOx is not a problem anyway with biodiesel >because there's no sulphur in biodiesel and therefore NOx reduction >is a simple matter... and watch them glaze over. (((Are you available to discuss this?))) > >I should also note the following: > >- HK will require that all biodiesel produced meet the most strict > >standards, specifically EN14214; > >- In order to achieve this standard using HK's waste greases and oils, >very > >expensive capital equipment will have to be purchased and thus any >project > >will have to be large > >I don't think so. Small projects using simple equipment are just as >capable of making standard-spec or better biodiesel from WVO as large >projects are. Large projects have so far built up quite a reputation >of causing problems by producing sub-standard biodiesel in both the >US and Europe, though the industry folks invariably claim only they >can produce quality fuel and homebrewers can't - not so! (((It's not really size, throughput, capacity etc., it is more the kinds of equipment that will be required to manage grease trap waste... from removing and treating the 300+ tonnes per day of wastewater from the waste, detecting other illegal waste that grease trap waste collectors may try to deliver, extracting all grease and oil from water in face of soaps and surfactants, preconditioning feedstock, converting a feedstock that ranges between 40 - 95% free fatty acid (ave. 71%) to FAME, and meeting all 25 EN14214 parameters proposed to be adopted in HK on a consistent basis (you will be happy to know that CFPP is not proposed, as logic would have it). There are many variables, and to get HK to recycle grease trap waste on any large scale within the next 50 years, I am convinced that considerable processing equipment will be required.))) >AFAIK the EN14214 Euro standard has not yet been finalised and what's >mostly been said about it so far isn't much more than conjecture. >Despite the US EPA's finding of "susbstantial equivalence" or >whatever between soy and other feedstocks, though they only tested >soy (SME), probably EN14214 will favour the characteristics of >rapeseed (RME) over soy or WVO, and especially WVO with high >lard-content (common in Hong Kong I think). Its CFPP (Cold-Filter >Plugging Point) and low-temp viscosity considerations will hardly >apply to Hong Kong conditions, but that probably won't move the Hong >Kong authorities much either. (((CFPP addressed above. Notwithstanding, some parameters included in the EN Spec do strongly favour rapeseed. It will be impossible for HK to import biodiesel from rapeseed at a price that can compete with mineral diesel. Thus, the EN Spec presents a challenge to viability of biodiesel in HK. Production of biodiesel from local waste feedstocks in HK is an incredible opportunity to promote biofuels, waste recycling, renewable energy, viability of environmental business, etc., etc., but it seems that pressures are strong enough to focus attention of some decision-makers on the few potential downsides, rather than extol the virtues. HK may miss an opportunity to demostrate support of progressive environmental business - wouldn't be the first time))) > >The Europeans are concerned that soy biodiesel (SME) has problems >with polymerisation, or at least worse problems than RME does. The >rapeseed Iodine Value is 98, soy is 130, so they could have a point. >(Rapeseed and Canola are the same.) I think there are also concerns >over sunflower oil as a feedstock (IV 125). With WVO it's hard to say >what the IV might be, especially if it's been used to cook fish, and >hard to say what the CFPP might be too (tallow and lard content). (((IV in HK ~70 - 80%))) > >Have you seen what the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers' 2002 >"World-Wide Fuel Charter" has to say about it, and about EN14214? >It's here: >http://www.oica.net/htdocs/fuel%20quality/WWFC_Dec2002_Brochure.pdf > >This is also worth a look: > >Fuel Injection Equipment (FIE) Manufacturers statement on biodiesel >(Delphi, Stanadyne, Denso, Bosch): >Summary -- html >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_FIEM.html >Full document -- Acrobat file, 104kb >http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel_library/FIEM.pdf > >Actually, as far as the World-Wide Fuel Charter is concerned, it's a >little hard to see why the (US) Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers >and the Engine Manufacturers Association are so concerned, >considering that the quality of petro-diesel supplied in the US is >some of the worst in the world. I don't think one's seen Detroit >squealing too much about that in the past. The Japan Automobile >Manufacturers Association is similar - there is no petro-diesel >standard in Japan, let alone a biodiesel standard, and quality is >generally bad. So, all the super-clean Japanese diesels go to Europe, >not Japan, and neither the Japanese nor the European diesels go to >the US, or at least very few of them do. The US is set to clean up >its fuel with ULSD diesel in 2007, and Japan a little sooner than >that. Perhaps by then EN14214 will be finalised. >Hong Kong's standard ULSD fuel is imported from Singapore, no? I >suppose everyone's still pretending there's no problem with all the >extremely poor-quality but very cheap petro-diesel smuggled in from >China? And the fact that the trucks fill up on that stuff in China >before returning to Hong Kong? I guess both those things are still >happening, are they? When will China develop - and *apply*!! - >petro-diesel standards equivalent to EN14214? But we have to be all >squeaky-clean about the non-problem of biodiesel and NOx, eh? LOL! (((I believe it may be from Singapore, and arrives mainly at Tsing Yi. Re. illegal diesel, it's pretty out in the open now. EPD and Customs and Excise both acknowledge. To cross the border, fill up in China and return with a full tank is legal. It becomes illegal when it is brought back and pumped from one vehicle to another, or to storage. Also, a lot of illegal diesel is imported by boat. In all, it's estimated that legal cross-border diesel + illegal diesel approaches 50% of consumption, from the numbers that are bandied about))). >Trouble with this kind of problem is the intention, which is to >obstruct. If you provide solutions to the current objections, the >evil intention remains and they just find a new excuse. (((We hope not, and we will work for as long as our appetite for the challenge exists. It's too good an opportunity to demonstrate environmental business to let pass easy. I will look at the references you listed above. I have received numerous studies that support that NOx is much less an issue when you balance other reductions in ozone forming potential of biodiesel, and can represent significant net benefit with respect to NOx and ozone when waste greases and oils are used.))) > >Well, best of good luck. (((Thanks))) >I suppose you've seen this? > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_hk.html >Biodiesel in Hong Kong: Journey to Forever > >http://journeytoforever.org/biodiesel_hk_text.html >Biodiesel in Hong Kong - News Stories: Journey to Forever > >I don't know how much help you'll get on this rather dysfunctional >list, I hope you do get some. Meanwhile I'll forward this to the >Biofuel list. It would be good if you could forward any further >comments or developments there. There is a current discussion there >on NOx, and quite a few members from Hong Kong and the region. > >http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel > >Best wishes > >Keith Addison >Journey to Forever > > > >and will have to depend on some amount of commercial > >distribution, rather than small-scale, for personal use projects; > >- Although all the waste greases and oils in HK would not likely produce > >biodiesel in excess of 5% total diesel consumption, a 'side-effect' of > >requiring any mix restriction would be that biodiesel producers would >have > >to work with one or more of the large oil majors in HK for distribution > >(there are other factors and restrictions involved here somewhat too > >intricate to explain here); > >- Oil majors in HK have not yet demonstrated support of biodiesel, and >thus > >cooperating with them would introduce distribution logistics and risks >that > >will likely make any large scale biodiesel production unlikely; and > >- Therefore, without evidence supporting that mix restrictions (whether >5, > >10, 50%...), should not be passed by HK Government, and as mentioned >above > >NOx and ozone are the major concerns, I am afraid that biodiesel >production > >of any kind will be shelved indefinitely. > > > >Thanks in advance for any assistance. > > > >Take good care, > >BK > _________________________________________________________________ Lose those love handles! 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