Girl Mark:
So how about your own version of equipment? Up for sales? How much? Tricia Liu LA ----- Original Message ----- From: girl Mark To: biofuel@yahoogroups.com ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] ; [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Wednesday, August 18, 2004 10:49 PM Subject: [biofuel] Biodiesel Solutions FuelMeister user testimonial- "Not Ready For Prime Time!" For a number of weeks, there's been a discussion at tdiclub about the Biodiesel Solutions FuelMeister- the $3,000-$4,300 plastic processor that's being foisted on newcomers with somewhat inaccurate (and scaremongering) advertising. A nice guy named Larry Larson in Illinois bought a FuelMeister and was really excited about it (and was posting about it on tdiclub in advance of actually seeing this Biodiesel Solutions FuelMeister). A number of us were sort of criticising him, or more importantly the machine- and he was defending the thing. Well, a month has gone by and Larry just posted in a couple of other places, a somewhat more critical view about his experiences as a Biodiesel Solutions FuelMeister owner. This is really big news, mostly because we almost never hear from anyone who owns one of the things, and they are marketed almost exclusively to newbies who dont' have much experience (ie via Tickell's website which gets mostly newcomer traffic (at least on the forum), via RealGoods- which nets traffic from outside the biodiesel community, and via those infomercial sorts of workshops that the various FuelMeister dealers do. Most of what has been posted online, which has been supportive of the Biodiesel Solutions FuelMeister, was written by peopel who just so happened to be FuelMeister dealers- Chuck at DrDiesel for example and the gentleman who is the president of RealGoods. The only user I can think of to post anything who has not also been a dealer, has been Eric Henry of TS Designs in North Carolina, who modified it beyond recognition, to the point where his FuelMeister now looks just like a home-built metal-plumbing processor. I keep trying to make the point (Larry refers to it below) that people are prone to defend their decision when they are criticised for spending huge amounts of money. But in general you would think that you'd hear from tons of peopel who've bought the machine, and that has somehow not been the case. But here is some of Larry's post: posted at Josh Tickell's forum: Hi Folks, Since my last post I have made about 5 more batches. I am less enthusiastic about the Fuelmeister. It takes considerable practice and technique to make it work well. The main issues are 2: 1) it is difficult to get the methanol and lye to mix completely in the mix tank. It can be done, but there needs to be more detail in the instructions to make it clear. A Fuelmeister representative at an energy fair told me it helps to pound the top of the tank to get it to mix. He's right, but this is not indicative of an "industrial grade" quality processor as they advertise it to be. 2) When emptying the mixing tank into the larger tank, it is difficult to get the small tank to empty completely. With 2 gallons left the oil in the big tank tends to start backing up into the smaller tank. That causes a big mess that I had to clean out by hand. Again, with proper technique, that problem has gotten better, but not completely solved. Customer service is excellent. When my mister assembly began leaking, I called Rudi and I had a new improved one within 24 hours. I think I've called 4 times with various problems, and he always takes time to help solve the problem. But overall, I think it's way overpriced. It's not junk, but it's not industrial grade either. When people see it in my garage, they typically say "so where's the $3000 worth of parts?" I feel that they should have perfected the machine before putting it out on the market. After paying $3000 I did not expect to be a beta tester for a machine that is not ready for prime time. The company is responsive, and they intend to make ongoing improvements, but that should have been done way before they started marketing it. If I wanted to fiddle and tinker, I would have made my own Appleseed processor for $200. From what I've learned in the last month, I think they work better too. Larry Larson" ***************** there's more, in more detail, over at biodieselnow.com (the entire thread is here: http://www.forums.biodieselnow.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=3285 ) quote: "Greetings. I am the Larry Larson Girl_Mark referred to in paragraph 9. I have been using a Fuelmeister for about a month, and have made 6 batches. I have mixed feelings about the machine. I bought it because I was anxious to get started making biodiesel and I didn't want to mess with making my own processor. At the time I thought there were too many design options out there and I wasn't knowledgeable enough to know which one would be best to build. Plus, I didn't feel like taking all the time to hunt down parts and then build the thing. Since then i have found out that that whole process would not have been as difficult as I thought. More about that later. As far as the machine goes, it's a mixed bag. It is expensive, considering what it's made of. Most people who come over and look at it say "where's the $3000 worth of parts?" It is not junk, but I wouldn't consider it "industrial grade" either. I think they advertise somewhere that if you can use a breadmaker, you can make fuel with the Fuelmeister. That is borderline absurd. Overall the instructions are good, except for some sloppy editing mistakes, most of which are inconsequential. There is one part of the procedure, the emptying of the methoxide tank, which takes considerable technique to master. The instructions are pretty good as far as they go, but I would be surprised if most folks could make it work well the first few times just following the instructions. I have called them 4 times with problems and questions and they are always very quick to respond and very helpful. After some phone calls and talking with a Fuelmeister dealer at an energy fair, I've got the technique down pretty good. There is a mister assembly that developed a leak. I called and they sent me an improved version within 24 hours. Rudi has seemed honest with me about the issues and problems, which has been important to me and has moderated my disappointment and anger. Girl_Mark is right, when you spend a lot of money on something, you tend to defend it so you don't feel like a fool for spending the money. Certainly metal tanks would be safer, but with normal precautions the Fuelmeister should be safe enough. However, Girl_Mark mentioned a hose tthat burst. That was clealy my fault, I left a valve closed that should have been open and the pressure had no where to go. I had a group grease-buddies over to watch the process, so now it's a funny story for all of us. However, my point is that the more safty margins a machine has the better, because no matter how careful you are (and I consider myself a very careful person), things happen, and then it's good to have extra safety margins in all the components. I think the Fuelmeister company intends to make continual improvements in the product as they respond to customer problems. They are responsive and that's good, but there are times I wish they had done more development work before putting it on the market. if I had had any idea how much tinkering, fiddling, phone calling and fussing I had to do with this machine, I probably would have gone a different route.I didn't pay $3500 to be a beta tester! The Appleseed processor design Girl_Mark referred to has been well received. There are cultural issues at play here too. Besides it's design deficiencies, the Fuelmeister perhaps represents a corporate sub-culture, and the Appleseed open source home brew crowd is a very different, non-corporate sub-culture. My feeling is that there is room for both approaches. If you can afford the Fuelmeister, go for it, aware of the limitations. If you're more adventurous and interested in making some new friends on-line who are becoming a sort of community as they discover and improve processor designs, then go the Appleseed route. I'm starting to wish I had done the latter. Larry Larson 2001 jetta tdi 1985 mercedes 300TD 1996 passat TDI wagon)" ****** the Appleseed processor he's referring to, and many other open-source type designs are at: www.veggieavenger.com/media Mark ***************** www.LocalB100.com www.veggieavenger.com/media open-design homebrew biodiesel equipment plans www.groups.yahoo.com/group/local-b100-biz biodiesel co-ops and biodiesel small business discussion forum www.groups.yahoo.com/group/biodieselbasics the alternative Yahoo biodiesel list Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Sponsor ADVERTISEMENT ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Links a.. To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ b.. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] c.. Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Make a clean sweep of pop-up ads. Yahoo! Companion Toolbar. Now with Pop-Up Blocker. Get it for free! http://us.click.yahoo.com/L5YrjA/eSIIAA/yQLSAA/FGYolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> Biofuel at Journey to Forever: http://journeytoforever.org/biofuel.html Biofuels list archives: http://infoarchive.net/sgroup/biofuel/ Please do NOT send Unsubscribe messages to the list address. To unsubscribe, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/biofuel/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
